Self ID Stats

[LizzyButterfly]

Having looked at the stats on "self ID" in terms of reform of the Gender Recognition Act, information from other countries that have adopted this are quite revealing. Trans people who apply per annum vs the population really shows how little an issue this really is.

Ireland: 129pa, pop. 4.83M
Denmark: 279pa, pop. 5.6M
Norway: 706pa, pop. 5.32M

I really don't know why it's such a problem????

Why what is a problem?

I don't know why people are against reform. I've seen examples saying that stats will be skewed but the percentages are s small to be non existant

In what ways might stats be skewed?

Who knows?

If a similar proportion of people got a GRC as in Norway, that would be over 8600 in the UK per annum, compared with about 300 new GRCs issued per year at present. But some of the trans lobby groups put the figure of trans people in the UK much higher than that, at about 1% of the population - so about 650,000 people in the UK.

We are already seeing the stats in the number of "women" committing violent assaults and rape growing, aren't we?

Sorry to be dense but apply for what? A GRC? Isn’t it the issue that ppl are self ID in far greater numbers in the UK than the GRA assumed would be the case plus local authorities/the police/nhs/schools etc accept ppls word that they are trans without asking for a GRC? Practice is running ahead of the law

The problems that are already occurring in U.K. prisons, where self-ID has brought in ahead of the law are more of an indication of where most trouble will arise.

I suspect the vast majority of people in the countries you list do are not even aware the laws exist. But given time, word will spread amongst predatory men and the problems will increase. Small numbers of predatory men in women’s spaces are still a problem, even if numbers are small.

Personally I think a system that allows even one dodgy bloke to be able to access women and girls easier cant be a good thing

How many victims are acceptable collateral damage op ?

That's applications per annum, not total numbers

@SarahTancredi how many reports of abuse of easier GRA applications have resulted in that? Just asking as that's another reason people use to oppose reforms.

It's not even come onto play here and everyone is acting as if it has.

Prisoners being the prime example. Without the gate keeping I mean you cant live as a woman in a mens prison can you. And yet some get transferred to womens prisons.

Is that a sufficient example of how a lack.of gate keeping has resulted in women being placed in danger.

From your responses I'm wondering whether you've read much about this before posting OP.

How many victims are acceptable collateral damage?

The problems that are already occurring in U.K. prisons, where self-ID has brought in ahead of the law are more of an indication of where most trouble will arise.

And under the new prison rules where prisoners are initially allocated to a prison according to their legally recognised sex, how many men would get a GRC just so that they could go to a women's prison?

Currently nearly half the male prisoners who identify as transwomen are sex offenders (60 out of 125).

Can you see any problems with this situation OP?

The process isn't going to be reformed, its going to be abolished. Can you see how that is a problem?

What do you have against women only sports, spaces and services?

@SarahTancredi gatekeeping has been in place since the equality act of 2010. There are examples of safekeeping failures, but these are not the fault of individuals, but the fault of the establishment not following proper guidelines. The GRA has nothing to do with the EA as it is only limited to legal recognition. The EA covers access rights as well as rights to restrict access

Oh dear, someone is reading the script.

Changing your legal ‘gender’ in Denmark does not give a man the right to access female changing rooms.
I don’t think access to other female only spaces has been tested, but it does mean men cannot assume the Danish equivalent of a GRC gives them access in places where men are excluded on the basis of sex.

Which then also gets around the problem of any Tom, Dick and Harry, however they identify, accessing women’s spaces, and it avoids men getting a GRC for nefarious reasons.

It is not clear whether this is what is proposed in the UK.

@CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost what script is that?

It would be interesting what the law in those countries says about self ID giving access to single sex spaces in those countries. I once heard Ireland used biological sex for prisons and single sex schools though that seems to be changing. We keep hearing its not a right of access here and still won't be, if only we believed that.

If it makes no difference then why do you need it?

It was only brought in because same sex marriage wasnt recognised. Now it is. People are free to marry who they want provided they are consenting adults.

If you plan to "live as a woman " whatever the hell that means then you will surely he doing all you need to do to get the certificate anyway?

If you want to sit and do it in an instant without any changes to your life then what's the point? Why get it at all?

How many women has convicted rapist “Karen” White been convicted of sexually assaulting in the female prison estate? Two? That’s already two too many in my book. There is no acceptable level of collateral damage.

There are quite a few questions that you've been asked OP, I'm interested in your answers.

@SarahTancredi "If you want to sit and do it in an instant without any changes to your life then what's the point"

That's the biggest misconception. Trans people don't wake up and think "hey I'm a man/woman". They know from an early age although it may take time to get there. I don't know what your concept of "live as a woman" means, I'm a woman but my experiences aren't the same as every other woman's
Anyway, do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space???