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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Self ID Stats

92 replies

LizzyButterfly · 17/12/2019 20:49

Having looked at the stats on "self ID" in terms of reform of the Gender Recognition Act, information from other countries that have adopted this are quite revealing. Trans people who apply per annum vs the population really shows how little an issue this really is.

Ireland: 129pa, pop. 4.83M
Denmark: 279pa, pop. 5.6M
Norway: 706pa, pop. 5.32M

I really don't know why it's such a problem????

OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/12/2019 22:20

Referencing Norway is particularly odd given the striking differences in both population distribution and cultural attitudes towards mixed sex nudity.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/12/2019 22:21

It would be like me doing, well, my best friend's elderly Japanese mum thinks mixed sex hot springs are OK, so my teenage Scottish cousin should be fine with some random bloke joining her in the bath.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 17/12/2019 22:22

This is a disappointingly brief telling-off-of-the-day.

But you know, tomorrow is a new day for the regulation two minutes hate, so presumably the wide-eyed scolding will continue then.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/12/2019 22:25

But but but, don't you want to be nice, Bobbly? And kind? Doesn't it just break your heart to think that not being given access to your naked body for affirmation purposes might make someone sad?

Qcng · 17/12/2019 22:25

How many women has convicted rapist “Karen” White been convicted of sexually assaulting in the female prison estate? Two?

White was accused of perpetrating four sexual assaults in prison, but confessed to two.

Considering this is a person who lies about being a woman in order to gain access to victims, and women are afraid of the repercussions on themselves after being sexually assaulted, I'd say four sex assaults is a low estimate.

LangCleg · 17/12/2019 22:30

This is a disappointingly brief telling-off-of-the-day.

I thought quite feeble since there was a cool choice between getting stuck in on some meaty threads (you'll notice they mostly go undisturbed as facile is the best opposition we ever get) or sticking up for poor old Michael Mumsnet's disciplining of inappropriate period talk, which would at least have been a laugh.

Poor effort!

HandsOffMyRights · 17/12/2019 22:36

Anyway, do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space???

Yes. With balls on.

HandsOffMyRights · 17/12/2019 22:37

Whoops, should say bells, obviously.
I dropped a letter unlike Karen White who added two letters.

LangCleg · 17/12/2019 22:38

Freudian slip!

CharlieParley · 17/12/2019 22:41

Is it terribly churlish of me not to look forward to having to rehash the very same arguments all over again? Especially when every time the pro-reform talking point posted here by the what's the problem brigade mirror the very latest TRA talking points to a T?

I mean for the longest time we've had:

The EqA mandates males who identify as trans must not be excluded from female-only provisions.

Now it's

"The GRA has nothing to do with the EqA"

And does anyone ever think hang on, all these lifelong trade unionists, left-wingers, women's and/or gay rights campaigners are up in arms about this - fucking worldwide no less - maybe there is an issue?!

So just to make it easy for you, OP, here is what an expert on the law said:

"Saying changing the GRA doesn't change the EqA is like saying "It's ok everyone, we're keeping the door locked just as it always was" while making massive changes to your criteria for handing out keys."

And I too would like to know, very much so, how many women and girls are acceptable to you as collateral damage in pursuit of granting special privileges to a group of men that no other group in society is allowed, not even those legally protected by the EqA.

How many women and girls?

1...
50...
150...
3000...

How many?

HandsOffMyRights · 17/12/2019 22:42

From The Spectator last year

'The criminal justice system merits quite a bit of thinking about. On the one hand, many of us can remember patients who were charged with crimes, convicted and who ended up on the sex offenders register when we thought that the same thing wouldn’t have happened if they weren’t a trans person.

The converse is the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences.

*It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this.

These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard.

In summary, a representative body for psychologists and the leading expert in the field, speaking for other experts, submitted clear and quite extensive evidence to Parliament suggesting that some male sex-offending criminals have attempted to exploit existing gender-change rules for harmful and illegitimate purposes and that others are likely to attempt to do so in future.*

Let me put that another way. In 2015, the experts we collectively trust and pay to study the issues arising from allowing people to change gender told our elected representatives that there are non-trivial risks that some male criminals exploit gender-change rules to gain access to, and commit acts of sexual violence against, women. Three years later, a person born male, has been charged with four acts of sexual aggression against women in the prison system.

HandsOffMyRights · 17/12/2019 22:48

Link to full and eye-opening article here. I mean, who'd have thunk anyone would exploit such a system eh? Confused

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/are-female-prisoners-at-risk-from-transgender-inmates/

CharlieParley · 17/12/2019 22:49

Referencing Norway is particularly odd given the striking differences in both population distribution and cultural attitudes towards mixed sex nudity.

And the three year ordeal of the woman who quite rightly complained about an unadulterated male who identifies as trans swanning about stark naked in the women's changing room. Dude got told off. He did it again. So the woman complained again and he sued her for harassment and whatnot.

It took fucking three years for the court to decide that she didn't harass him by objecting to a naked male in a female only space.

Norway, yet another country that enshrined self-id in law without once considering the fact that women have rights, too.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 17/12/2019 23:05

Anyway, do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space???

Oooh, let me see. In the past predatory men have been known to spend years training as teachers, doctors, priests, work their way into positions of power within the Scouts, sports coaching, the BBC, even set up entire charities just to access vulnerable women and children to abuse.

So do I think these same sort of men might go to the extraordinary lengths of filling in a form in order to access vulnerable women and children to abuse?

Of course I bloody do. How fucking stupid would you have to be to think otherwise?

littlbrowndog · 17/12/2019 23:12

Yeah who was that guy in was it unicef in Nepal convicted for sexual assaults against children.

Fuck knows how many he assaulted before he got caught as I guess the children he assaulted before being caught had no voice

No voices poor children have no voices

SarahTancredi · 17/12/2019 23:15

I just wanna know how one set of people want this because of all the abuse and violence they face but another set of people afraid of the same predators and violent men are just worrying over nothing?

Why does providing an opportunity for the same people you are claiming hurt you, to then follow you wherever you go to get to you, seem like a good idea?

Makes no sense.Confused

nopocketsgrr · 17/12/2019 23:20

How many victims are acceptable collateral damage?

Exactly. And lets not forget that abusive males (who may or may not be trans, who may be predatory or opportunistic) will almost always have multiple female or child victims. Its not a one-to-one ratio.

Poota · 17/12/2019 23:28

An hour an fifteen minutes? And only the first few bullet points of the script? I'm with Lang, a disappointing effort.

Although I did kind of enjoy the counter to men hiding in septic tanks and air vents being to focus, not on the lengths men go to to be creepy bit that those particular examples were stealthy.

It's obviously the hiding we object to. Hmm

Datun · 17/12/2019 23:29

Anyway, do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space???

Er, yes, of course. Why wouldn't they?

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 17/12/2019 23:34

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that these ideologists are just plain thick as two short planks.

Voice0fReason · 17/12/2019 23:35

do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space???
Men have gone to extraordinary lengths to gain access to the women and children they want to abuse. They train as teachers, priests, scout masters, coaches etc.
Now they don't need a GRC, they don't even need to put on a dress. All they need to do is say that they identify as a woman and they can gain easy access to almost all women only spaces.

This is harmful for women and also transwomen. TW should be demanding barriers as that is the only thing that will attempt to differentiate them from abusive men.

CharlieParley · 17/12/2019 23:37

Anyway, do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space???

ROFLPML

You clearly haven't understood the least little bit about self-id and the planned law reform. I will admit, things have gone truly bonkers when the very same Scottish Government that passed a 50/50 representation law that requires a totality of zero proof to allow a man to self-identify into a woman's seat on a public board publishes a draft consultation paper that admonishes organisations, including itself, for enacting policies not required by either the EqA or the GRA and without considering the rights of women. (But will defend that representation law to the hilt as right and proper.)

A law btw that not only proves our point about self-id, but also demonstrates how little women matter.

A man need not have surgery, take hormones, dress in a feminine way, live in role (whatever the fuck that means), adopt a woman's name - in short, to claim a woman's seat on a public board in Scotland, he need not change anything at all about himself other than utter the magic words

"I identify as a woman"

That's already the fucking law in Scotland - policy derived from self-id. He doesn't even have to keep on identifying as a woman. At point of access is enough. And the misogynists who passed the law explicitly placed such a man above women (that is female people) in deciding who to give the place to if it came down to it.

So, maybe you ought to do a wee bit more reading before telling us we're imagining any negative consequences.

Datun · 18/12/2019 07:59

Honestly, you couldn't make it up.

The Scottish government decide you don't need any evidence to be transgender, and then confidently assert that

There is no evidence men identify as transgender to access female-only spaces to commit sexual violence, the Scottish government has said.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a42ec8d2-2107-11ea-9a0e-84d50453511a?shareToken=8f86b7983e1bbc4544e7a4dd8d0a470a&wgu=270525_54264_15766541260696_694e8ab84a&wgexpiry=1584430126&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

There is no evidence that men acquire a transgender identity, because they have made sure there is no evidence for a transgender identity.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/12/2019 08:14

If the SNP had intended to run an actual in depth consultation surely it would have taken a bit longer. Much like Named Person I suspect they won't drop this policy until they end up challenged in court over it after it's gone quite predictably wrong.

I was initially baffled as to why my dad dislikes Nicola Sturgeon so much. I'm starting to see why now.

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