Pro Remain GC feminists - who are you voting for?

[Fantasisa]

Just that. I feel like the only option available to me is spoiling my ballot which is clearly a terrible waste.

Even if that were true is she suggesting they would ban all future elections?

Following page 48 of their manifesto - there would literally be nothing stopping them from doing so.

However there would be no need to. They also support boundary change - which essentially results in gerrymandering constituencies so that they will almost certainly favour a tory govt.
-They use lies in their own policies and to smear the opposition.
-They are using dark advertising to target specific voters again- and following the loss of EU constraints they will have free and easy access to our data, making such targetting easier and maybe not even illegal.
-They will not bother to tighten laws around social media campaigns and the way it is used to spread lies.
-They have vast majority of the print media on side.
-Purdah this time around has not been observed with anywhere near of the same impartiality or rigorous oversight it needs. No way should the BBC have aired the Andrew Neil interviews until Boris Johnson had recorded his - and that is one tiny example. This will continue.
-They intend to bring in a law for voter ID - disenfranchising mostly poorer and BAME voters - who don't tend to vote tory.

And the result of all that combined - would be almost continual tory rule.
But even if - by some miracle - someone else got in next time, we will still have all had to survive the next five years, the austerity, the no deal end to the transition period and the shortages that will bring, the job losses, the increased homeless and poverty, the seriously run down NHS and the health crises that will bring. So many people will not survive that - so many people have already died due directly to tory cruelty, and Thursday is everyone's chance to vote to protect and honour those people.

I know it sounds mad. I know people think 'it can't happen here.' It can. We're not special. It is happening. The only chance to stop it is for us to believe it is happening - that it can happen here - and choose to stop it ourselves.

John Major and Michael Hesseltine both think the current incarnation of the tories are too dangerous to vote for. They are publicly telling people that. That should be ringing alarm bells.

I'm not missing the point. I understand the GC concerns. But we have an imminent and immediate threat to our way of life and our democracy. An immediate threat to the actual lives of the most vulnerable.
Letting the tories in will not protect women's rights. They have been harming women's rights for these past ten years and will not change now. They will not protect you from self ID - they don't care. If autogynophile CEOs of big corporations ask for it - of course they'll grant it. But they also won't protect you from homelessness and poverty either.
And anything that doesn't vote to stop them is allowing them the opportunity to harm us all. No matter how you dress it up.

Icantreach I may have already posted something similar on this thread - there have been so many - but every time a poster turns up to berate us uppity women and lecture us on our moral duty then my hackles rise a little further - which is not good for Labour as I don't live in a safe seat. I don't know if you realise how much damage you are doing.

Those who are spoiling their ballots, are you going to write why? I'm concerned that otherwise no one will know, because it won't be obvious

No one is interested in what you write on your spoiled ballot paper. SingingLily's post is correct.

If a seat is really close then the spoilt papers will be looked at more carefully to see if there is any possibility they can be allocated to a candidate.

Following page 48 of their manifesto - there would literally be nothing stopping them from doing so

I can't take you seriously but carry on pushing for us to vote for a bunch of deranged Marxists.

Ofc a spoiled ballot isn't counted but if the tellers are seeing loads with the same reason written on, they'll notice and mention it won't they.

I also had the vague thought that candidates are shown the spoiled ballots, but I might be wrong.

I've chatted to 'counters' (can't remember the real word) and they'll say the most common things they've seen (it's often willies apparently )

I’m writing none.

(Although the discussions are women=adult human female etc type short phrases would be something I might consider in future if lots were going for the same thing)

But I will be emailing all candidates and telling them I spoiled my ballot and why.

"LD. All of the parties are shit on this and I want to send the clearest message possible re remain and also I am not happy with the two main parties going so extreme again. I'm in a safe labour seat so it won't make any difference to outcome but will increase LD vote share."

Same here.
I'm not normally a Lib Dem, but I'm in a Unite to Remain seat and they are the Remain choice here, with no chance of the seat going Tory.

Ofc a spoiled ballot isn't counted but if the tellers are seeing loads with the same reason written on, they'll notice and mention it won't they

I've been a teller. No they do not read and comment on what is on spoiled ballots. You'd be removed from the count if you do.

I also had the vague thought that candidates are shown the spoiled ballots, but I might be wrong

The candidates can see them if they want. In 2017 there were seats with tiny majorities- one even had 2. The candidates will definitely look at them in that situation.

Have googled and found an Electoral Commission document Technically you can have your vote counted and add something next to your X, e.g. "despite stance on self ID".

"A ballot paper must not be rejected because the vote is:
• not marked in the proper place
• marked other than by a cross
• marked by more than one mark

If it's clear which candidate you've chosen it will be counted.

Not on the night SomeVelvetMorning but my friends who've done it will happily tell you what sort of thing they've seen in the past

Those who are spoiling their ballots, are you going to write why? I'm concerned that otherwise no one will know, because it won't be obvious

Some people are using purpose made stickers.....I'll be writing Transwomen are men: women require single sex services and spaces for their dignity, comfort & safety

In spite of what some say, spoiled papers do get counted and occasionally they are read. There were so many spoiled ballots in the last election it was mentioned on the national news.That is not the point, though.

Times have changed and the political atmosphere is now toxic, full of lies, manipulations and obfuscations. For those of us who wouldn't dream of staying away from the ballot box - it is the only positive choice available - if you simply feel you cannot endorse the candidates and/or parties on offer.

To vote for that you are inherently opposed to, or with which you have serious issue is not what many of us feel we can do, anymore.

If you vote for something you are endorsing it. That is why people, such as Michael Heseltine, are advising people to vote against a life time's habit - and vote Lib -Dem, rather than Tory - if Brexit is your primary concern.

Personally, think Brexit is a done deal, now......and for me other issues are far more important - because more 'foundational' and with greater long term impact.

If you live somewhere marginal or where there might be a swing because of brexit then it's worth holding your nose and voting tactically.

I see no point at all in doing that if you live in a very safe seat.

Floisme If you're not going to vote labour (which I'm not even advocating - I'm advocating tactical voting) because a stranger on the internet pointed out some hometruths about how dangerous not voting was in this particular election - and you didn't like them - then that's on you not me.

Voting for what you believe in is fair enough. It can be dangerous - I believe in this particular election refusing to vote over self ID allows a far greater and more wide sweeping danger to take over whilst at the same time in no way protects against the danger of self ID - but it is a principled stance. Not Voting for something you believe in/ think is important because a stranger pissed you off is sheer idiocy. But again - that's entirely on you and your choice. Don't blame it on me. I'm just putting my viewpoint across on a chat forum. same as you.

I have not mentioned 'uppity women' - but I have talked about the dangers tories present to women, the cruelty they have already inflicted that have disproportionately affected women and the fact that we have this one chance to stop them continuing for the foreseeable future. if you think that is lecturing - that is your interpretation. It's other people's very lived reality.

I can't take you seriously

Why would you think that a prime minister who lied to the queen and tried to unlawfully shut down parliament to avoid scrutiny and crash us out of the EU against the will of parliament, wouldn't find an excuse to delay an election? And then delay it again? and again? When he specifically has included a clause in his manifesto that puts him above the law, so he can't be held accountable by the courts no matter what laws he breaks?
He's already shown us who he is. Isn't the MN mantra to believe him?
But as I have stated (and you ignored) - he doesn't have to stop elections. The devices he will put in place will be enough to ensure that we don't have fair elections ever again. And he'll have the 5 years he needs to do whatever he wants.

but carry on pushing for us to vote for a bunch of deranged Marxists.

Well that's showing your true colours. I've advocated tactical voting. Not labour. Or do the Lib Dems, Plaid and SNP class as deranged "Marxists" as well? I thought the problem with these parties on this thread was supposed to be their stance on self ID - not their fiscal policies?

I’m holding my nose and voting LD. it pains me to do it, but I am in a key swing seat so can’t spoil my ballot. I’m not represented by ANY party but I have come to the view that Brexit is the clear and present threat and I am voting against the push for hard brexit and isolationism.

I am hugely GC, but have concluded that the more gender issues and the risks of self ID are discussed, the less likely they are to go through so let’s vote for a party that want to talk about it but can’t respond to the arguments. It’s better than the no platforming that’s happening at grassroots level, even the most dedicated TRA can’t no-platform parliament. Jo Swinson’s media collapses when questioned on the subject have shown how flawed the policy is and sadly I fear the 2020 Olympics will bring it all into very sharp relief. So basically, I despise LD for their stance on many things, including gender, but I will vote for them in this election only.

What a fucking indictment of British politics.

I see no point at all in doing that if you live in a very safe seat.

I'm just very very afraid that some of those 'very safe seats' may turn out to be nothing of the sort. There has never been an election like this one. It's uglier and dirtier and the stakes at the end are much much higher. Any wasted vote - that could have been vote against the tories - frightens me.

I really think we need to stop using GC and start using GR (Gender Realist).

Not on the nightSomeVelvetMorningbut my friends who've done it will happily tell you what sort of thing they've seen in the past

I can't remember. I don't recall giving them any attention beyond they couldn't go into a pile for a candidate.

In spite of what some say, spoiled papersdo get counted

You have fundamentally misunderstood what is being said. All ballot papers are counted. The amount of papers in a ballot box is a known figure. The tellers have to reach a figure which matches that figure. When the supervising tellers hand over their figures, which will include the spoiled papers, if the the figure doesn't match the papers have to be counted again.

I’m holding my nose and voting LD

Self ID will always be a Liberal stance. More them than with the Labour party in my view. Individualism and freedom of choice is what the Liberals are fundamentally about. They simply don't recognise, or have any analysis, of women as a distinct group or category which is structurally disadvantaged or oppressed.

Or do the Lib Dems, Plaid and SNP class as deranged "Marxists" as well?

I'm voting Lib Dem tactically to keep the SNP out. I don't support the Lib Dems but I detest the SNP. The seat is a straight Lib Dem /SNP fight. If it were Tory /SNP I'd vote Tory. Labour will need to sort itself out before it gets my vote ever again.

Conservative

Labour majority, will spoil ballot paper. Not sure what to write yet.

I can't remember. I don't recall giving them any attention beyond they couldn't go into a pile for a candidate

Others have said differently......people who have also been at counts ...... Anyway, the point about spoiling the ballot is more to do with matter so political and personal integrity.

Of course, also important to tell local candidates that this is what you'll be doing and why.

Ithought the problem with these parties on this thread was supposed to be their stance on self ID - not their fiscal policies?

Fiscal policy every time for me and keeping separatism in check. Self ID doesn't even make the list.

matters of personal and political integrity