Pro Remain GC feminists - who are you voting for?

[Fantasisa]

Just that. I feel like the only option available to me is spoiling my ballot which is clearly a terrible waste.

Spoiling the ballot is an act of integrity for people who feel the vote actually matters.

Thank you, this is how I see it.

What gets me about this thread is the number of women holding their noses and voting LD, Lab, SNP despite being GC - no wonder so-called progressive parties are taking women for granted!

should self ID ever happen - it is reversible. Should the tories get in our hard brexit and trade deal with the U.S, our loss of the NHS and our loss of workers rights/ environmental standards/ health and safety standards/ food standards is forever
The preliminary talks U.S/U.K trade deal have banned any discussion on climate change.

Page 48 of the tory manifesto outlines a plan to make governments above the law - so ordinary people can no longer access justice against e.g lengthy and unlawful prorogation of parliament or the executive voting to remove our existing rights without parliamentary assent. This is a step towards dictatorship - and it is not even hiding.

There is no going back on the damage a tory majority will wreak on this country.

The country is such a mess at the moment, with so much to sort out, that self ID - no matter how it appears in a manifesto - is not going to be high up on their list of priorities of things to do. Plenty of things that are put into manifestos never see the light of day. (where is the right for all citizens abroad to vote, no matter how long since they left the country, from the 2015 tory manifesto? no where - that's where. it didn't happen, despite a tory majority, so it could have passed on the nod.)

Any vote that is not specifically a vote against the tories is a vote for the tories - and everything that will entail for the country, and the vulnerable women and children living here.
AND anything that is not a clever/ tactical vote against the tories is a vote for the tories.
It is really important for the future of this country and for the future of those too young to vote that we vote wisely and in the best way to conserve all the protections and rights we have enjoyed. The tories are looking to remove any vestige of rights/ protections and democratic accountability - life under them will be 1000 times worse for women and children than it will be under any other party with daft notions of wokeness.

And please bear in mind - we already have rapists in women prisons on their own say so. This was brought in by the tories . Why on earth would you trust them to protect you from it further? Because they just didn't mention it in their manifesto? Well excuse me whilst I just count up these 50 000 new nurses in the 40 new hospitals. THEY ARE LIARS. they will do what they like. If the trans lobby has the money then, under the tories, the trans lobby gets what it wants.

Please please please - there has never been an election so important in any of our life times. The entire soul of our nation is on the line. This is our one last chance to stop a disaster from which there will be no recovery. Not in our life times, maybe not in your children's life times. Please do not enable this.

If you're not sure which way to vote - because you don't particularly like any of them - then look at this site:
comparethetacticals.com/
find your constituency and vote for the best not tory option.

Realistically we are looking at either a tory majority or a hung parliament - hopefully with remain leaning parties in control. A hung parliament will band together to sort brexit and then probably collapse. They certainly won't last a full term. And they will not be taking time out to sort self ID.

But if the tories get in on Thursday then the future and safety for women and children will be bleaker and harder for decades to come.

Please don't help hand us over to the far right. Please don't stand back

• over one issue - and so give the far right a chance to reshape our country, our laws and our lives, forever, in their own image.

no wonder so-called progressive parties are taking women for granted!

Leaving aside individual MPs like Joanna Cherry, none of the parties have much to be proud about on this issue.

The Conservatives may not have changed legislation, but by doing nothing they have allowed TRA ideology to quietly change policy in the police, hospitals, schools, universities, prisons and local councils.

You have to believe in the concept of human rights in the first place to believe that they are worth protecting, and there is ample evidence that many Tories don't.

should self ID ever happen - it is reversible
How? Once men have the human right to be women, and all western countries have bought into this nonsense, how do we then strip those rights from men?
Every single man who would then be moved back to a men's prison or kicked off the hockey team etc will sue.
Pritzker's team have endless pockets.
It's not reversible. We're already dangerously "ahead of the law" on this.

And I'm going to say it again - if the Labour party really wanted to stop the Tories they wouldn't risk so many women's votes.
Ask Jeremy if men who say they are very sad are more important than stopping austerity measures and protecting the NHS. It's his choice, he could make a statement saying natal women and girls' rights will be protected no matter what and third spaces will be looked into for men who say they are very sad.
But he won't, because he takes my vote for granted and chooses to guilt trip me instead of dealing with my concerns.
I'm an ex-member, I'm a trade unionist, I thought I was one of those "good people" but I'm not a mug.

That’s how I see it flying.

I’ve said this elsewhere but imho it’s the same as a murderer offering me a choice of how he will murder me. I think I’d rather refuse to chose and not buy into the delusion I have any control. Spoiling my ballot is refusing to buy into the delusion there is no ‘lesser evil’ when it come to wiping out women’s rights. It will show them there is no party that meets my needs. They won’t care of course, and i expect it will add up to nothing, but it’s better than them thinking I support them.

Vote for any party and they don’t think this voter supports us expect for x y &z, they just see the support and don’t question their behaviour.

I don’t think self id could ever be reversible, not within the lifetime of voters. And look what it took to get it in place in the first place. I don’t want my daughters paying that price, even if it saves others sons.

I've just posted this on another thread. I don't want to get into the Brexit argument but Self ID is a big red line for me.

"Well well well.

Just had a Conservative canvasser on the doorstep. The first canvasser I've seen. I asked him whether the definition of the word woman had ever come up. He said, yes, and he proceeded to demonstrate a surprisingly well-informed gender critical knowledge of the issues: changing rooms, toilets, sports, prisons. He said he'd just had a discussion with a woman wavering about her vote but she is now promising to vote Conservative as she cannot abide that aspect of the LibDem manifesto.

I asked him if he would relay both her concerns and mine back to CCHQ and he said he would, adding, "The views expressed on Twitter about this do not, from what I can see, reflect what people are saying in real life. They are trying to erase women's rights"."

Lib Dem, but I am in a marginal seat and would not spoil my ballot for this reason alone. I could not live with myself if I thought I had contributed to a Tory government.

I am very very unhappily voting lib Dems. In a Tory seat but with a faint chance of the lib dem beating the dim, pro Brexit Tory candidate, so I can't abstain or spoil my ballot. Can't bear the thought of 5 more years of Johnson and the Tories and what it will do to us all. Hoping for a hung parliament with self id a very long way down the list of priorities.

Self ID, within Britain, is a British law brought in by a British govt and affects only ... Britain. No parliament can bind the hands of its successors. So if (and this is a big if) the next govt - whoever makes them up - brings in self ID then those who follow can repeal it, once it is shown to be the disaster it clearly is.

A bit like how fox hunting used to be legal - then labour made it illegal - but the tories are always talking about bringing it back. Because in a new parliament they can. Or the way Theresa May was forever talking about bringing back Grammar schools.
Go back into history - Peel repealed the corn laws, to much dismay (though it was the right thing to do at the time).
Domestic legislation can be altered and, more importantly it can be changed back
No - it doesn't undo the damage it caused whilst it was in place. But it can prevent damage going forward. And we (currently) have a right to lobby for and against existing and proposed legislation and to never give up until we win.

Brexit is about our relationship with Europe and the rest of the world. Trade deals are internationally treaties. Once they have been signed off the next parliament cannot just undo them they are stuck. They might try to negotiate something more favourable - but why would any country make concessions on a deal already signed? Once the tories have shaped international trade deals to suit the needs of their vulture capitalist, billionaire chums - we are stuck with that forever.

That is why self id is reversible - and the selling off of the NHS. striking an America first trade deal with America and a hard/ no deal brexit cutting us off from our biggest and nearest trading partners, introducing export papers to export within our our own territory and destabilising peace in NI is not.

Self ID may not happen - even if it is in manifestos. It will not be the priority of the hung parliament that is our only realistic alternative to a tory majority. A tory majority that lasts 5 years may well bring it in anyway, they will have the time (a hung parliament far less likely to survive the full term). All the countries they want to trade with already have it - it is not a policy that works in opposition with their small state, big business, every man for himself philosophy. If anything, it complements it rather wonderfully.

But if the tories do get a majority, then hard brexit resulting in no deal at the end of 2020 and an U.S trade deal which destroys the NHS will happen. And any vote that is not a vote specifically aimed to stop that is being complicit in their plans for our future. And your daughters AND your sons will pay the price of your complicity.

There is so much exaggeration in Icantreachthepretzels post that the Tories are going to turn the UK into some sort of fascist dictatorship. Even if that were true is she suggesting they would ban all future elections?

I was and still am a Remainer but we had the referendum and the vote. I was, but no longer am, a Labour voter.

All of the choices are far as I am concerned are all bad- but a Tory majority is the least worst option. Corbyn is a dangerous idiot having his strings pulled by dangerous Momentum handlers. Labour needs a new Tony Blair and only a crushing defeat is going to make them see sense. A Labour minority government propped up by the SNP is the worst scenario I can think of.

"Gender critical" isn't anywhere on my list of what will decide my vote.

Thank you to all posters who have shared their motivations. It's really helped me decide what I'm doing on Thursday.

I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country. I've checked that tactical voting site.

I just can't do it. I'm going to spoil my ballot. It's the only moral option I can live with after the results come out. I will be writing in the voting booth, a little note beside each party to explain the main reason why I can't chose them.

I'm only sad that my seat is so safe, the Lib Dem's don't even bother offering a candidate...

Maybe I am grasping at straws, but in some ways it might not be a bad thing if the government tries to introduce legislation that can be scrutinised. At the moment changes are being made by stealth.

Once men take away women’s rights they won’t willing reinstate them. If they would then they wouldn’t be taking them away now would they?

Using fox hunting as an analogy would mean women are the foxes and men all humans, and that all humans didn’t want to stop fox hunting. Where as actually people have been split on this. Foxes don’t have any say and once women don’t have sex based protections we no longer have any valid say about all the matters that effect us because of our sex, and we can’t vote in other women to represent our views to reinstate those rights, because those women will likely be men or support self id. Women’s votes will no longer matter when women as a catagory can be defined anywhere the awa want it to. So we will be stuck as foxes with no vote that counts and no way to change that, only with the knowledge we handed it over to the humans hunting us.

It's not exaggeration. Go read page 48 of their manifesto. Read the documents of their 2 years of talks about the NHS and a U.S trade deal.

For god sake - look at what they've already done! 130 000 avoidable deaths by austerity. 4.1 million children living in poverty, 1 million people using food banks, massive increase in homelessness, stagnation of wages whilst prices still rise, hospital closures, the worst waiting times on record and the NHS in utter crisis. They've lied to queen and unlawfully prorogued parliament. They returned EU money meant for helping children in poverty unspent. They've doubled our national debt - it now stands at 1.8 trillion and borrowed more money since 2010 than every labour government combined and yet we still have working people living in poverty whilst they cut corporation tax.

This is not a flaw in the system. This is their design

At the moment they are constrained by EU law and regulation. The point of brexit is to cut themselves free of that.

One tory candidate has said he believes that people on benefits should me made to live in cities of tents and pick fruit. That's a return to workhouses without the actual fucking building to at least keep the worst of the weather out. This candidate was not suspended for his statement.

This is who they are. I am not exaggerating - and if you don't believe me please do the research for yourself and find it out. It is readily available.

The fox hunting analogy is simply to point out that laws can be changed and changed back ffs. It's to illustrate that self ID - IF IT EVER HAPPENS - can be reversed, as there is often talk of reversing other laws. It's got nothing to do with what each part of the analogy metaphorically represents.

Are women also grammar schools and corn laws?

Even If you consider that Self Id is not important enough for you to spoil your ballot...then there are innumerable other reasons; certainly for me.

I have never, and will never, vote Tory - even if they are the only one's fudging the Self ID issue for now.......

As far as the Liberals are concerned( & I've voted for them once in the past) I've come to realise what Liberalism ( British tradition) is really about this year, and can now confidently say I'll never vote for the Liberals again. They also enabled and aided a Tory government in furthering its policies, when they could have enabled Labour instead.

Lots of young people voted for them - and were let down badly. Nick Clegg deserved to lose his seat for over-seeing the demise & sell off of Sheffield Forge Masters ( his own constituents).

I'd love to vote Labour......but given the woeful inadequacy of the Women and Equalities minister - Dawn Butler - who must surely only be there as an act of pure PC tokenism - I cannot. She is not the only one, either. Labour has put forward so many PC/'intersectiona'l and 'woke' candidates who, I beieve, are simply not up to the job.

I'm in Louise Ellman's old constituency - and the way she was treated by some in her Local Constituency party was disgraceful. She was bullied out. Old school Militants and hard leftists have infiltrated in some areas, and they are bullying and vindictive.

Louise's Ellman's replacement might be a nice woman, and engaged in her local community - but I don't think she is capable or credible at a national level. I look at Jeremy's front bench and wonder what has gone wrong......

The Greens are a party of protest and a pressure group. And given their treatment of GC women and other members of the party - they've destroyed any credibility in my eyes. Locally - they simply oppose everything.

Came to add my two penn'orth but velvet beat me to it. Remainer, ex Labour, GC. Labour can fuck off until they've sorted themselves out.

Your missing the point Icant - if women don’t have human rights legally protected we don’t have a say period. Why would the men who want to take away our rights hand them back, ever. There’s no way to demand our power back once we’ve handed it away, because we won’t have any power to do so. We will be stuck asking, and why would men benefiting from complete power ever hand any of it back willingly. Especially after they’ve had the validation of thinking all those who vote for them agree women don’t deserve any power.

I just can't do it. I'm going to spoil my ballot.

I understand that completely. The stances of the three main parties mean that we are having to play 4D chess to work out which is our top priority. However:

I live in a constituency that only recently swung from LibDem to Conservative. It is on Jo Swinson's 60-seat Remainer Alliance list so there are only three choices available here: Conservative, LibDem, Labour.

Labour would think it a good result round here if it didn't lose its deposit.

Our LibDem candidate is Helen Belcher. Anyone who thinks I'm going to help Helen Belcher take a seat in the HoC and be in an even better position to push for Self ID can think again.

And anyone who thinks I will help Helen Belcher indirectly by spoiling my ballot can also think again.

Fuck knows....

I’m in a safe Labour seat. I’ve always voted Labour or LibDem but the LibDems are now the party of misogyny & homophobia.

The only candidate who’s replied to my question about sex-based rights was the Tory one, who said that after 35 years in the NHS she got the importance of single-sex wards.

I think I’ll probably have to spoil my ballot too.

Those who are spoiling their ballots, are you going to write why? I'm concerned that otherwise no one will know, because it won't be obvious.

I mean, write why on the ballot paper

I mean, write why on the ballot paper

As a former LGO who to help out with counting, I'm sorry to tell you that it won't really matter what you write. Spoiled ballots go into their own pile. Someone works out if you really meant to vote for someone but got confused. The rest are counted and....that's it.

If an electorate of 75,000 voters cast 74,999 spoiled ballots and one valid one, the valid one wins.