Woman's Hour Jo Swinson Now - 6th Dec

[AbsintheFriends]

Andrea Catherwood (?) interviewing and being quite tigerish. Seems to be in a mood to take no shit.

It's the party that contains Joanna Cherry.

To go to a point made by another poster merrymouse voting SNP might trigger a livelier debate. As we've seen, when this stuff gets debated, the gender identity ideology can often come over really badly.

But then another independence referendum. Tricky.

Ferring was interested in this novel use for their expensive drug because they market Triptorelin, one of the GnRH antagonists used in gender clinics under the brand names Diphereline and Gonapeptyl.

I'd usually write this kind of thing off, but according to thread below, part of Lib Dem policy is that a GRC would enable medical treatment?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3759611-Searching-for-a-party-LibDems-on-trans

"The Liberal Democrats will introduce a policy which will allow people to be recognised as their gender, without the dehumanising process of being diagnosed and proving their identity.

This will mean that trans people will be able to transition and receive support from the NHS without a gender dysphoria diagnosis."

(Unfortunately I don't know who said this - whether it's official Lib Dem policy or just a quote from a random Lib Dem)

Three things that make me question the link are:

1. I can understand why a company like Ferring would support the Lib Dems because of Brexit Policy
2. The idea that doctors would be forced to provide drugs on the basis of self declaration rather than diagnosis seems far fetched.

However, this Guardian article
www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/26/trans-patients-in-england-face-soul-destroying-wait-for-treatment
Implies that there is pressure on doctors to supply drugs on demand.

Unfortunately, at this point I can believe that there are Lib Dem MPs who would rather campaign for drugs on demand than more research and more funding of specialist treatment.

At the moment medical treatment - a diagnosis of dysphoria - precedes a GRC.

However, it's not clear whether any kind of treatment could be refused once somebody has a GRC.

We know that detransitioners are saying that they weren't given proper counselling before starting treatment, but would a doctor even be able to suggest counselling to somebody who already has a GRC?

Thanks for the transcription, pencils.

Can not believe that she’s doubling down on this belief in an epidemic of violent lesbians to support opening up women’s refuges to males.

Bloody hellfire, does some wee part of her not go “hang on a minute, am I not sounding a tiny bit homophobic here?”

I’m so disappointed in how dim/unquestioning she’s turned out to be. I so wanted to get behind her.

She’s not wrong that she’s an “enthusiastic” feminist, though. As a PP pointed out, that’s what you call someone who really enjoys some sort of activity, but is comically bad at it. She’s the Eddie the Eagle of feminism.

Yes, this interests me too, Merrymouse. If "gender dysphoria" is depathologised and "gender identity" becomes the protected characteristic on the basis of feelings/innate essence, why would a socialised health service have anything to do with it? It would be mere cosmetic procedure.

She's lost her seat before and it could happen again. As previously said, the more exposure she gets, the less popular she becomes.

The most useful bit of the interview with Jo Swinson, for me, was the bit when she floundered and resorted to the Lib Dem mantra of "There is not a hierarchy of equality

EB responded: " But you are creating one, aren't you?"

She's is exactly right. The implicit suggestion, and application, of Self ID and of permitting trans-women ( vast majority of whom are fully male bodied) into women's intimate spaces and services, and into women's sports, onto short-lists etc is that the TW rights, needs, requirements, comfort( and their feelings of validation) are more important than those of women.

The discussion of 'rights' and 'equal rights' clouds the issue ( & it does with the Labou party too) that this is not so much about civil rights - which nobody is against for anyone......but about necessary protections and safeguarding procedures which are based on biological sex, and which is why they currently exist.

Genius SophoclesTheFox . Jo Swinson as the Eddie the Eagle of Feminism

It's the party that contains Joanna Cherry

So what? She's still pushing separatism.

I saw the film of Eddie the Eagle's life story and I think the comparison with Jo Swinson is unfair tbh. He was very courageous in the face of awful bullying and discrimination and in the end won the respect of the people who bullied him.
Jo Swinson doesn't have those qualities.

The point is that reforming the GRA is a devolved issue- and there is nothing that says that you have to vote for the same party in the Westminster and Scottish elections

That is a very good point. The Lib Dems have no chance of being in government (save possibly for some nightmare scenario of propping up a Labour minority government). If like me, it's anyone apart from SNP, voting Lib Dem in a Westminster election does nothing except keeps the SNP numbers down.

If "gender critical" is your big thing it's the SNP at Holyrood who are pushing that and who can carry it though via Scottish only legislation in Holyrood.

I can understand why a company like Ferring would support the Lib Dems because of Brexit Policy

But their large donations to the Lib Dems go back to 2014, well before Brexit was an issue.

Ferring donations to Lib Dems

This will mean that trans people will be able to transition and receive support from the NHS without a gender dysphoria diagnosis.

Interesting quote Merrymouse. Shows how little that spokesperson understands the NHS. If there is no diagnosis of gender dysphoria, then how can you offer treatment? It will be treated like aesthetic surgery and people will be expected to arrange it privately.

Finally got the BBC Sounds app to work. My god, it's not just the self-ID stuff, the whole interview is a car crash! I wouldn't elect that woman to the local Women's Institute, never mind to Parliament.

Ferrings donations go back to 2013, actually. That was before Stonewall took on the T officially, but some years after TRAs and Queer activists had already got their feet under Stonewall's table and were influencing policy.

Did it all just happen organically, or can we find who was quietly organising and planning in the way that Denton's have recommended.

Brief update:
Spoke to Amy Callaghan on the doorstep. She does not support the word "cis"

This will mean that trans people will be able to transition and receive support from the NHS without a gender dysphoria diagnosis.

Eh? Does the NHS work differently in Scotland?

There was another SNP woman on WH recently, Deidre Brock, who said, 'so for us, the GRA act that - the draft bill that we are introducing early next year - that's about ensuring that all young people have access to support from a trusted adult.'

They seem to be cramming rather a lot into a bill which is supposed to be about how to change the sex on your birth certificate.

In both my consultation responses I said the proposals were not so much reform as repurposing the act, but that was just to do with how obsolete it was now and how self-ID would open it up to an entirely different group of people for different purposes. This is off-the-scale repurposing!

'Simple administrative change' my arse

Interesting, Nettie – so anyone who wants any kind of NHS treatment or therapy for gender-related issues either has to go through the 'dehumanising' process that Jo Swinson has derided to get their dysphoria diagnosis or goes straight to the private sector. And hello, Ferrings, now we see where you fit in.

I've finally had chance to listen. I don't think I've ever heard such an inept interview. My opinion of JS has plummeted and I thought it was rock bottom already. Surely she'll be replaced after the election.

"So what? She's still pushing separatism."

Everyone has to choose different criteria depending on their views and their constituency.

My vote will very much be swayed by the fact that I live in a completely safe Tory seat where no serious candidates from other parties will stand.

If I lived in a swing seat I might vote differently.

They have to choose from a sitting MP nobody4, so their selection pool is small. And might be smaller.

Chuka Ummuna? 😂

Shows how little that spokesperson understands the NHS. If there is no diagnosis of gender dysphoria, then how can you offer treatment? It will be treated like aesthetic surgery and people will be expected to arrange it privately.

Who knows? At the moment there is pressure on GPs to prescribe hormones and hormone blockers because there is a waiting list for gender identity related services. I understood the quote above to mean that the Lib Dems feel that a GRC will speed up access to hormones and hormone blockers, because of course (they believe) a woman would receive cosmetic surgery to look more female. The stage where an individual receives counselling can be skipped if they have a GRC.

However, perhaps you are also right. In a world of feminine penises, lesbians with beards, and part-time women, hormones and surgery are just a cosmetic choice.

I admire Eddie enormously, too endof.

It was only a comment on ability versus belief, I have no doubt that Eddie may well be better human than Jo, from what I know of both of them.

Maybe I’ll change it to her being feminism’s living illustration of the Dunning Kruger effect, but it’s not as snappy

'Simple administrative change' my arse

If it's only a simple administrative change, why do any documents provide information on sex?

They are completely changing the way we record data, but nobody explains the reasons, except some guff about identities.

If they honestly think the government holds information on 'identities' we need to be told why and what these identities are.