Prisoner denied GRS - court case.

[CactusAndCacti]

I can't see any other post but a prisoner is suing the NHS as they were refused GRS.

This prisoner was convicted for having indecent images of children and for sexual activity with a young girl. They are now suing because of the distress that has been caused to them.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/28/transgender-paedophile-sues-nhs-refusing-reassignment-surgery/amp/

They are in prison for child sex offences and they think it acceptable to sue for their 'distress'. It looks like the tale is being seen as an attempt to get an easier ride away from a male prison which holds little back when it comes to children and prisoners.

Trans people can be paedophiles, so can cis women. The two are not mutually exclusive.

How would you propose to enforce sex based exemptions for a trans woman like Maxine Heron?

twitter.com/pinknews/status/1200202715206279168?s=21

How do you enforce sex based exemptions?

You look at the service you're providing and your client group: (females who are female prisoners)
You weigh up whether including males has negative impacts on the service you're providing and your service users
You do impact assessments
You decide if its in the best interests of everyone concerned to include males, or if this has a detrimental effect on the group of service users you are providing for.

Who the individual male is is not relevant.

I repeat: I get what is in this for biological males: it's obvious. There's no downsides for them.

What do you think is in this for the biological females who have these males forcibly inserted into their space?

How would you propose to enforce sex based exemptions for a trans woman like Maxine Heron?

Why, what's special about Heron?

Two also obvious possible solutions here that don't involve using women against their best interests, human rights, safety, trauma, boring stuff like that:

• males own their own stuff and make the males among them who are feminine presenting welcome, safe and included

• third spaces are available for the support, privacy and dignity of people who prefer to identify out of single sex provision, or who have GRCs.

The NHS is on its knees. Why are we offering what is essentially comsetic surgery in the NHS? Plenty of people don’t like their bodies but there seems to be no explanation why trans are treated like a protected class who can have whatever they want.

If they want female feminisation surgery in the UK then they can save up and pay for it themselves.

I don't understand the obsession to be included in everything female and to do with women.

How are trans people going to be accepted by society if they behave as if they are so ashamed to be trans? What's so bad about being trans that you have to go to great lengths to hide who you are?

Why can't they be proud of being trans and campaign for legal recognition of 'trans woman' and 'trans man' as distinct categories from men and women?
They can easily advocate for legal protection from discrimination, access to specific types of healthcare, funding to setting up their own shelters and groups to cater to their needs and issues.

The gay and lesbian movements didn't gain recognition and acceptance by hiding as straight people and demanding everyone treated them as if they were heterosexuals. It's called Pride for a reason.

Trans people need to own their identity and campaign for legal recognition as distinct categories that have nothing to do with the biologically based categories of man and woman.

@NonnyMouse1337
I really wish @mnhq had a like button

The solution is simple. Said paedophile should remain in a male prison for the duration of his sentence. If he's in significant "mental distress" then a psych will be able to determine if this is genuine gender dysphoria and provide appropriate therapy.

Absolutely no further medical intervention should be provided until he is release and it's up to him what he does afterwards.

There needs to be appropriate safeguarding and the prison regulations need to be changed because this shit keeps happening way too often.

Women need to be protected from this. It's that simple.

Heron is a trans woman, you say she is a man and should not be using female spaces.

This is a genuine question as the law is flexible to allow for people like that and you are asking for something far more rigid.

Thanks ffswhatnext. I doubt I'll ever get a clear answer to my questions.
It's almost as if the trans lobby doesn't want to create a positive social movement to help trans people get proper legal recognition and support. All this hiding and obscuring and distorting facts.... Cloak and dagger stuff. It's so tedious.

I thought mn was banning the use of 'cis' @Bronners1978 ? Anyway the percentage of men who are paedophiles is equivalent to the percentage of transwomen who are paedophiles- strangely enough. The percentage of actual women who are paedophiles, by comparison, is miniscule. It's an almost exclusively male crime.

Heron is a trans woman, you say she is a man and should not be using female spaces.

OK, it's clear you want to steer the conversation onto one about "passing".

Heron is one person. What happens if they go into a single-sex women's space and one woman says "this is not acceptable to me because of my past experiences/religion/etc"?

Why should Heron's wishes prevail over the woman's? What is the key fact that means this precedence must happen?

@NonnyMouse1337
It's the most logical solution. Shame all the attention and time isn't focused on this. It makes complete sense even just from a health point of view.

If the laws are changed and women get fucked over, it will be a nightmare for a&e having to test chromosomes in emergency situations for example. Or who to send smear or prostate checks to. It's not only the transpersons health that could get fucked over but everyone's.

We already get moaned about for talking about periods and pregnancy, imagine the outrage when a smear reminder letter shows up.

I’m not ashamed to be trans, quite the opposite, I’m very open about it with everyone around me.

Kind of need to be when you come out to colleagues you’ve worked with for a decade and go through such a big thing, whilst holding a prominent role in an organisation of nearly 10,000 people.

They were brilliant, we’ve had a lot of fun and that didn’t stop there. I’ve worked in several different teams, each one accepting and understanding.

The point with people like Heron is that, like many trans people, you can’t tell they’re trans. There is no way to enforce sex based exemptions the way you state.

There is always going to need to be a degree of flexibility in how a service provider can provide their services and why exemptions are on a person by person basis.

The LGBT Awards tweeted this (and then deleted it). More prominent members of the LGBT community (Stephen Fry is pictured on their bio) need to call this support for paedophiles out

What sort of lawyer would take on such a case? Someone with no moral compass at all.

The point with people like Heron is that, like many trans people, you can’t tell they’re trans

that's not the point though. males should not be in women's prisons, regardless of what they look like. It really is that simple

If someone is going to choose to have cosmetic surgery that makes their life more complicated, well...their life will get more complicated.

but it isn't up to women to help them out with that

Nope. If a person doesn't want to be in the category of 'men' that's fine. It doesn't automatically put them into the category of 'women' though. Feminity is not what defines a woman.

Trans women can campaign for their own legal gender category as trans women and loads of people will naturally support them. Otherwise genuine respect and recognition is harder to come by if they cannot be honest with themselves and others.
Lying and deceiving people about their trans status won't achieve positive results in the long term.

It's why the Trans Privilege Lobby have to be so heavy handed in their approach by labelling any dissent and disagreement as transphobia.

Given that HRT, and surgery effectively sterilises the trans woman...

Bronners Please stop referring to cosmetic alteration via cross-sex hormones as 'HRT'. Those cross-sex hormones were not there to start with. They are being introduced. Not replaced. HT not HRT.

Thousands of women rely on HRT to manage debilitating menopausal symptoms in their female bodies. Their hormones are actually being replaced via HRT.

It’s interesting. I’d actually support this person having a form of “GRS” But only total castration and removal of their penis.

Nonny. Awesome posts

Bronners, Good Lord, if you're going to disguise yourself to the point where no one can tell that you are your own sex, then no one can help that.

It's very interesting though how the person would have to lie, all the time.

There is nothing about this ideology that is upfront and honest.

Heron, unless they want to lie, should use the facilities for their sex. And if you think they'll run into trouble because of male violence, the solution is not to allow men into the women's, is it?

It's really not difficult. Men overwhelmingly constitute the violent cohort. Changing their appearance is utterly irrelevant.

If you can't trust them to be honest, then they absolutely are demonstrating who they are.

Trans people can be paedophiles, so can cis women.

Use of cis is banned around here. Do it three times and you'll get a ban - if anybody reports you, that is. That they likely will not should say something to you - those in opposition to your arguments think they should be seen.

Anyway.

This thread is about a convicted paedophile with minor female victims who is suing the MoJ for being insufficiently deferential to his sexual identity. Yes, you all read that right. Yes, monitors, I correctly sexed this paedophile perpetrator because we're allowed. Just so we're clear on that, I'll provide a helpful quote:

we’re unlikely to delete where an individual is primarily known for extreme or criminal actions undertaken before they transitioned

I've no idea why threads about paedophiles are so popular with the anti-feminist genderists hereabouts. You'd think they'd stay well away. But, since they don't, and since they quickly realise that shilling for paedophiles doesn't go down well and set about derailing the thread - can we not let them do that?

Since this paedophile apparently only discovered his gender identity post-conviction and while incarcerated, I'm wondering whether he was part of the anti-androgen cohort that Jenny Ross investigated and I posted about earlier?