There seems to be something very wrong in canada

[QuentinWinters]

Very pro the "woke" agenda and trans womens rights, whilst coercing indigenous females into having sterilisation
www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/indigenous-women-kept-from-seeing-their-newborn-babies-until-agreeing-to-sterilization-says-lawyer-1.4902693

I'm properly shocked by this article. How can a civilised country even countenance this?

Interesting thread. Recently returned from a stay in Canada and have many Canadian friends. One thing I do notice is that many Canadians cannot bear any criticism of their country and its laws and practices. Almost as if they're so used to be held up as a beacon of progression and Canada being The Best Place To Live that they literally cannot believe anyone could find anything to criticise and so resist it strenuously. Don't worry I've said it to my Canadian friends, some laughed, most responded with the same outrage I often see on social media.

that doesn’t sound like a breach of guidelines to me. Perhaps worth politely querying with HQ

Here you go

if exposing women to PIV rape in prison, then gaslighting them with bullshit letters like this, is not anti-woman, then I don’t know what to tell you

(Oh sorry my comment re the deletion was based on the deleted person’s explanation, not the later person’s. Didn’t see it myself)

For what it’s worth Canada’s health system + gun control are both very good.

Whereas horrific misogyny is certainly a global phenomenon

Remember the Michael Moore film about guns? I remember him saying that Canada has almost as many per capita as America, and yet somehow much lower rates of people using them to murder each other.

I'm inclined to think that it's America rather than Canada that's the exception to the rule there though.

nach unfortunately the deleted post means you can't read my reply in context. The post suggested that encouraging sterilisation by Canadian SS was acceptable in some circumstances, used insulting language about the posters here, called us "a bunch of brits on a forum" and implied because some of us are british we shouldn't discuss this.

I totally understand why indigenous people are angry at colonisers. That doesn't mean I have to be deferential to someone who posts on a forum, claiming to be indigenous, justifying why certain women shouldn't have bodily autonomy.

You are going to get deleted again. You can't use some of those terms on this site.

Women are not animals. It isn't up to the state to decide whether or not they should have children. Women deserve full autonomy over their bodies.

If they are impaired by drink or drugs to the point they have lost capacity to make the decision to have children then 1) that should be decided by the courts, not a random social worker and 2) they have also not got capacity to consent to sex so men having sex with them are raping them. Those women need protection, not to be sterilised and left to it.

I honestly don't see how you can believe you are a feminist if you don't support women's bodily autonomy. It's fundamental.

I absolutely support women's bodily autonomy, and I also believe that women should know what options are available to them, including sterilization. I see no issues with a social worker suggesting it, as long as it's left at suggesting and not in any way forced.

I've been involved in the system and I wish it was as easy as letting the courts decide and holding the men accountable for rape. If it was that fucking easy, everything would be solved and life would be lovely.

I'm a realist and I know that these issues are not black and white.

You are going to get deleted again. You can't use some of those terms on this site.

As to that, whatever, I think it's very sad that Mumsnet continues to allow that kind of hatred a platform.

Sorry to bother but could you possibly excise the word T**F or failing that , delete the post , many thanks

It's not easy. The easy way out of all these anti-women activities is to avoid dealing with the issue at hand and imply that the victims bought it on themselves somehow.

Then shut down discussion of the issues to cover up how much women are damaged by patriarchal norms.

Then we can all just continues normal. And who cares about the women being shat on, really?

@Coyoacan "Sixties Scoop" is the official term used in the current compensation case.

And for the record, I'm British, but I have family and have spent time living/working in Canada (as well as the US, Asia and a few others). In my experience, they only really care if you lump them in with Americans. Worst. Insult. Possible.

I think the point to be made about Robert Pickton isn’t so much that he was a serial killer who targeted prostituted women, many of whom were FN. I mean, that’s a serial killer for you.

The point to be made is that the Canadian police knew there was a serial killer on the loose in Vancouver targeting these women- they were warned by other women who’d had lucky escapes and social workers who saw their service users vanishing- and they made very little effort to catch him, through incompetence or laziness or corruption (Pickton had a kind of dive bar/ night club on his property that some police frequented).

The women who were murdered were not valued by those paid to protect them. It is that, rather than the presence of Pickton, that shows up the woman’s rights issue.

Kind of like a much more polite version of how Scots react to being assumed to be English.

(I'm imagining the Canadian version involves less swearing.)

The point to be made is that the Canadian police knew there was a serial killer on the loose in Vancouver targeting these women

Yes, that is a serious issue. But it's not just a Canadian one. Across the world police tend to ignore issues faced by marginalized women, miniorities and LGBTQ.

To suggest this is purely a sign that something is wrong in Canada is pretty disingenuous.

Yes, I don’t think many British citizens would experience the levels of outrage demonstrated on this thread if they found some Canadians commenting on something shitty that happened in the UK

It’s very interesting. And explains a bit about how they got so far down the trans rabbit hole I think

Trudeau is the perfect leader for this attitude-woke in public and blacks up for fun

I don't think its disingenuous to show up injustices, wherever it happens. I hate the hypocrisy that the West shows, in claiming to be inclusive and patting themselves on the back, whilst at the same time treating the most marginalised women like this.

I'm not going to apologise or feel ashamed for pointing that hypocrisy out.

I think its hypocritical to make it sound like it's purely a Canadian issue.

I don’t think many British citizens would experience the levels of outrage demonstrated on this thread if they found some Canadians commenting on something shitty that happened in the UK

I think the issue of a bunch of non Indigenous British people, or even a group of non-Indigenous Canadians, commenting on my people's issues, without having the slightest clue about the history or the context, or what life is like on the reserves or for First Nations people, upsetting yes.

I especially dislike my peoples issues being co-opted as a way of pushing their anti-trans agenda.

Yes, that is a serious issue. But it's not just a Canadian one. Across the world police tend to ignore issues faced by marginalized women, miniorities and LGBTQ.

To suggest this is purely a sign that something is wrong in Canada is pretty disingenuous.

Nobody is suggesting these problems are isolated to Canada. However, as an outsider, Canada is often held up by the Woke as an example of a wonder, progressive democracy, so much better than the USA, for example. When in reality, it has deeply ingrained issues with racism and sexism, just like every other country on the planet. Again, racism and sexism are not unique to Canada, but it's useful for outsiders (like women in the UK) to look at Canada, look at it's policies, and see where we might be headed.

If women elsewhere want an idea of the consequences of Governments implementing a policy of self-ID, they need only to look at Canada. Kimblerly Nixon began suing Vancouver Rape Relief in 1995- that's YEARS before any of this stuff started to really come to a head in the UK. And the targeting and harassment of VRR hasn't let up since then- they've had their funding cut (thanks to Morgane Oger), and had dead animals nailed to their property, all because they had the cheek to not give a transwoman what they wanted, because they didn't think it was in the interests of the women they're supposed to be helping.

And then you have Yaniv. Multiple human rights complaints against lone working women from an ethnic minority because they didn't want to touch Yaniv's genitals. Yaniv was initially granted anonymity by the BC Human Right's tribunal, and that was only lifted because Yaniv fucked it all up for Yanivsself by effectively outing Yanivsself on Twitter. It was only at that point that Yaniv's racism and paedophilia were exposed.

Canada's policies and what they have allowed to flourish in their country are a warning to us all.

I especially dislike my peoples issues being co-opted as a way of pushing their anti-trans agenda.

You keep saying this. I am not pushing an anti-tank agenda with this post. I am talking about Canada not actually being as woman friendly as it claims (as per beardeds post).
I'm also not suggesting it's only canada. But the sterilisation claim is in Csnada so yes, I'm talking about canada in this post.

Anyway. As a FN person, what do you think needs to happen here? Educate me.

I am talking about Canada not actually being as woman friendly as it claims (as per beardeds post).

You're pushing it right there. In your opinion anything that benefits trans people, or is pro-trans is anti-women. Myself and many other women don't see it that way. I see being tolerant of others, and including trans women as women, as a way forward for everyone.

In regards to FN. It's complicated for a variety of reasons. It's not just a white Canadian vs. FN thing, there are also issues within the Nations themselves that need to be addressed, and in order to do that, they will have to open themselves up to the wider nation, simply because the resources to address the rampant abuse & drug use aren't within the reserves themselves.

Many nations have lost their history, and have had Christianity and its values forced on them. We lost our women's councils and our embrace of two-spirited people. We need to get these back.

Personally I think the Truth and Reconciliation Committee is a step forward. We need to be honest about the past in order to move forward.

Greater involvement of the various tribal councils and the Assembly of First Nations in Parliamentary decisions would be another way forward.

That's just from the outside. There's lots to be done from the inside as well.

Because Canada is accepting of trans people and makes efforts to include them, it means Canada is anti-women.

Thanks, hulkspurplepants, very neat summation.

Canada is anti-woman. As is every other country on Earth. Forget randoms on MN. The screenshots above are of actual Canadian women. Why don’t they matter?

In the UK, Karen White was removed from the female estate after raping women there.

In Canada, this alleged rapist remained while the victim was moved to solitary, WTF!!

People can see TWAW but cannot see these marginalised, vulnerable women as even human.

(Sorry OP I’ve drifted off topic rather, this is close to my heart)