Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

[tryandempathise]

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

I'm not speaking about allowing men, I'm speaking about trans women. They might be a subset of men but I think we have agreed that data about men cannot be extrapolated to trans women. And if we are going to treat them like predators based on the fact that they are a subset of men then we should be treating men men as definitely dangerous and not allow them near vulnerable people at all because we have actual data on their propensity for violence.

Okay or you could treat them the way men are currently treated?

Your choices that you have provided are:
1)Remove all safeguarding for men everywhere
2) Treat trans women as women.

Why not treat trans women like men are currently treated and not change a thing?

not allow them near vulnerable people at all

Could you define vulnerable people please, Eyez?

Hang on. If she was assaulted by two other women she should definitely have called the police.

From my limited understanding, cross dressing is a sexual fetish and isnt about gender or sex identity so your point is moot, lovie ducks. Really good effort though.

Eyezwideshut you have admitted that you believe that the harm of your cousin's (totally-not-imaginary) experience outweighs the harm of dozens of documented sexual assaults, some of them on minors committed as a direct result of opportunistic male predators taking advantage of their access to female spaces. (And who knows how many more unrecorded crimes.)

Your moral compass is disturbed beyond imagining. What the actual fuck. But at least you've said it.

(Reposting because I don't know if I'm allowed to say all of I what I said above, no matter how warranted it is. I'll report my previous post.)

From my limited understanding, cross dressing is a sexual fetish and isnt about gender or sex identity so your point is moot, lovie ducks. Really good effort though.

It's under the stonewall trans umbrella!

If you don't know enough to understand what's classed as transgender and what isn't you shouldn't even be trying to argue a case.

eyes There was a security guard there when your poor cousin was attacked?

She was verbally assaulted yes. She didnt want to draw more attention to herself by going to any papers or anything like that. They would have likely ran a story in the Metro if she contacted them. They love that kind of thing. She was mortified because she really thought it would end with her having to prove to someone that she is female. She was shaken up and crying. Really upset for days. It wasnt a little thing to her.

If you know your understanding is limited, wouldn't it be a fantastic and revolutionary idea to, well, you know....educate yourself?

There's a fantastic thread on here called something like "Break it down for me" that would be a good read. Then there's the Trans Widows threads (three of them). Then there are many many others that contain useful educational and critical information for anyone who really wants to learn more.

I think we have agreed that data about men cannot be extrapolated to trans women

Why not? If this is true, why haven’t we reduced our crime stats by popping dresses and a bit of lippy on male prisoners ?

Yes if people like those women will try and police toilets like they did with my cousin then we should let ALL men in and just have completely unisex spaces.

Trans

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms

Eyezswideshut you are an absolute Transphobic bigot, trying to deny Crossdressers their identity!

This is a good point Alun since the point was made that if a woman is assaulted then obviously all they have to do is report it and everything gets fixed. Which was given as the reason why women should be ok with random males until they've actually been assaulted. And the reason that women should have their right to single sex spaces removed is because the cousin's experience proves women are meanies when they feel threatened, so the people who are viewed as potential threats should be protected from women. (Not sure why this means they should go into these awful women's spaces then, but ok.)

And if this doesn't happen then men shouldn't be allowed anywhere because safeguarding. And the UK is racially segregated.

Cross dressers arent transgender.

The term cross-dressing refers to an action or a behavior, without attributing or implying any specific causes or motives for that behavior. Cross-dressing is not synonymous with being transgender.
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
Cross-dressing - Wikipedia0

Cross dressers arent transgender.

YES THEY ARE!
Stonewall says so.

Speak to Stonewall, lovie duck. That's THEIR definition, not ours.

Ah, so removing single sex spaces from women is a kind of punishment for reacting badly when feeling threatened?

Eyezswideshut
You are wrong, Stonewalls own definition say's they are under the trans umbrella.

A trans person might cross dress for sure. But that doesn't mean all cross dressers are trans. They are synonymous as it says on wiki.

In fact the stuff I see about cross dressing trans people are for instance, someone who was born a man,transitioned to a woman (legally it seems) but "cross dresses" as a man on occasion.

But you have no proof that trans women are as likely to commit violent crime as men. Every study posted has been refuted. Even by the author themselves in one case.

Table 1.2b in the link I posted earlier.
medium.com/@evastanford/transwomen-sexual-offenders-a-closer-look-6c507d9e2414

The likelihood of a transwoman being imprisoned for a sexual offence is approximately the same as for any other male-born person, and at least 50 times that for a woman.

A trans person might cross dress for sure. But that doesn't mean all cross dressers are trans.

Stonewall says crossdressers are under the trans umbrella.