Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

[tryandempathise]

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

No Gertrude, I don't think we've had "man haters" yet?

And "New people joining to prove a point", rarely used but not unheard of.

My DP is very masculine and does just about everything he can to emphasise his masculinity. If he was trans then I would say that he should absolutely expect to be asked about his identity in women's spaces.

I dont think the main issue with my cousin was the women asking. She is very butch. It was how they asked and that they wouldn't accept her answer. It was as if they wanted the security guard to take her somewhere and show them her vulva.

I'm unsure whether we're now forbidden from using the face or the these days on FWR, so I'll just sit quietly.
Although I do agree with Horse. Michelle's goldfish is a bastard.

Oh poopflip. I thought I had a full house.

Ok, I'll get my aunt, gran, three cousins and their dog to sign up tomorrow and tell you all about what happened to them.

No, race is no comparison, that's another straw man. No space in the UK is segregated by race, many are segregated by sex. For good reason. There is no plan to change this. There's just a movement of a small percentage of men who want to go in the women's provision.

Are you going to answer about why YOUR being fine with it means all women must accept it even against their feelings of very much NOT being fine?

Eyez seems to think that being trans is about appearance. That's quite offensive imo. I don't think trans people should have to look a certain way as I dislike gender stereotypes.

Shes read the thread already and said she wants to tell it in her own words. Especially now she's seen the bit about proving her sex with her voice. She's a bit of a "Dave" so that didnt work at all. She smokes about 30 fags a day.

Could you please explain what is your proof that transwomen are not as violent as men?

Could you also please explain why what happened to your cousin, who no doubt genuinely exists, is worse than what happened to the victims of Katie Dolatowski, Karen White, Jonathan Yaniv... I'm not even going to keep listing. Can you explain why it's worse than what happens to all the women who get surreptitiously filmed and posted on porn sites by men who invade women's spaces?

Can you explain why you've decided your cousin's very plausible sounding experience outweighs the actually documented trauma of women who have been assaulted as a result of opening women's spaces to men?

@Michelleoftheresistance

I see media stories all the time about people complaining about events that are banned for white people. I'd say we do have racially segregated events already.

As long as we're dreaming, I'd like a pony........

YY Pope. Indeed some would claim it's transphobic.

@Eyezswideshut
Ah yes, that is mostly the author of that blog post writing their interpretation.

Using MoJ statistics from a FOI request made by the BBC.

If you think the interpretation is wrong, you could do your own interpretation and post it here.

As long as we're dreaming, I'd like a pony........

Presumably because you are a woman?

I'm also not sure why what happened to your cousin means all women should be stripped of their sex based rights for the benefit of males? Can you fill that gap in again for me?

then I don't think your guess that you are more at risk outweighs the harm

This is getting quite tiresome. You don’t believe women and girls have any right to keep men out of previously sex segregated spaces. You are incapable of grasping that allowing men access will compromise women’s safety. But anyway, if it does, that’s a matter of minor importance because women’s safety doesn’t seem to concern you at all. You have failed to address any of the real life examples, the statistics, the arguments. You want to take a battering ram to the places where women are vulnerable and if we don’t agree, you call us a litany of offensive names to shut us up? Do you seriously think this is a good look?

I see media stories all the time about people complaining about events that are banned for white people. I'd say we do have racially segregated events already.

Where? When? What? You were just arguing that racial segregation was something old and wrong and a reason why sex segregation was wrong? Now we're racially segregated in the UK?

I seriously need more glue for this conversation.

@allmywhat

Because she is a woman who used the toilet meant for women and was assaulted by two other women who thought she LOOKED like she shouldnt be there and so that warranted screaming that she is a rapist and a paedo in Westfield at Xmas. If women are going to treat other people like that based on the tiny chance of someone hurting them in a toilet, then we need to protect them first. We know that men manage to hold off their urges to rape and maim pretty well considering that they are so incapable of self control.

I thought you would appreciate the experience of the person it actually happened to over me speaking about it 2nd hand. I'll tell her not to bother.

*As long as we're dreaming, I'd like a pony........

Presumably because you are a woman?*

Well D'uh....

My DP is very masculine and does just about everything he can to emphasise his masculinity. If he was trans then I would say that he should absolutely expect to be asked about his identity in women's spaces.

Again, you are entirely transphobic to assume that just because someone has a beard and is "masculine" that they are not a 100% transgender woman. It's an internal essence, you see.

You want women's spaces to be open to all transwomen, then you have to accept you are going to get people who look like your husband strolling in whenever they want, on their say so, and there isn't a damn thing you could do about it.

I'm not speaking about allowing men, I'm speaking about trans women. They might be a subset of men but I think we have agreed that data about men cannot be extrapolated to trans women. And if we are going to treat them like predators based on the fact that they are a subset of men then we should be treating men men as definitely dangerous and not allow them near vulnerable people at all because we have actual data on their propensity for violence.

I'm not saying my bloke couldn't be trans, I'm saying that if he was and chose to walk around like he does now, he should be expected to be questioned about it.

Questioned. Not screamed at and called a paedo

Because I get those 3 things, it doesn't seem extremely unsafe to have someone who was born a man but dresses and presents as a women in my toilet or changing room. It doesn't make sense to me.

So you think cross-dressers should be in women's changing rooms? Because they wear dresses? Do you think that makes them change sex? Should women who wear men's jeans and t-shirts use the men's changing room? Does my clothing make me change sex as well?

I'd really like to know.

Gordon Bennett, my post was deleted. Because I used a photograph from kiwi farms.

My post said that Rachel McKinnon exemplifies the unfairness of mixed sex competing.

McKinnon is not particularly athletic, but their male born physiology give them a massive advantage.