Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

848 replies

tryandempathise · 27/11/2019 07:54

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
Michelleoftheresistance · 27/11/2019 16:21

I'm getting so tired of the desperate, ridiculous generalisations and deliberate misunderstandings.

If you honestly can't differentiate between someone you're married to and unknown males in spaces that could be risky in terms of sexual assault then I can't help you, I really can't.

Eyezswideshut · 27/11/2019 16:21

@BernardBlacksWineIceLolly

Honestly I dont know what I think. But I do know that I dont think every man is equally likely to rape women and i do not think data based on non trans people can be extrapolated to trans people.

To put it in hairdresser language, it would be like telling someone with afro hair to use products or techniques that were only tested on non afro hair.

Eyezswideshut · 27/11/2019 16:23

If it is unsafe for someone who was born a man to be in a changing room or toilet because they are very likely to rape the vulnerable and weak, then they should not be exposed to the naked genitals of a child for safeguarding reasons.

BertrandRussell · 27/11/2019 16:24

But anyway, for me the issue with people with penises in woman only spaces is not about rape. It’s about privacy and dignity and protecting our hard won freedoms.

Ereshkigal · 27/11/2019 16:24

i do not think data based on non trans people can be extrapolated to trans people.

Why? What's your rationale for that? What's the material difference?

Ereshkigal · 27/11/2019 16:24

But anyway, for me the issue with people with penises in woman only spaces is not about rape. It’s about privacy and dignity and protecting our hard won freedoms.

Yes, exactly.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 27/11/2019 16:24

If it is unsafe for someone who was born a man to be in a changing room or toilet because they are very likely to rape the vulnerable and weak, then they should not be exposed to the naked genitals of a child for safeguarding reasons

Right, now how do we know who is a risk?
We don't, so we have safeguards in place.

Eyezswideshut · 27/11/2019 16:25

I know my own partner but I dont know all men so if I really thought that men were they dangerous,I'd be spending most my time stopping them being around kids. Even their own kid. They wouldn't be allowed to teach or anything. Too risky.

Michelleoftheresistance · 27/11/2019 16:25

What was the example used in court?

Some animals eat people. Gerbils are animals. Therefore gerbils eat people.

Yeah, try harder. Not engaging with that kind of silliness.

BertrandRussell · 27/11/2019 16:25

To be honest, most people would hesitate before letting a completely strange man change their baby’s nappy or give them a bath. I don’t think I get your point.

Eyezswideshut · 27/11/2019 16:26

But if the case is that all men are of equal risk so much so that even those who take the opportunity to change their body appearance and legal identity to be female,then all men are too much danger around their kids. If they are that likely to rape.

BertrandRussell · 27/11/2019 16:26

Nobody is allowed to teach without proper safeguarding in place...

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 27/11/2019 16:26

I know my own partner but I dont know all men so if I really thought that men were they dangerous,I'd be spending most my time stopping them being around kids. Even their own kid. They wouldn't be allowed to teach or anything. Too risky.

Is that your gotcha, All animals are elephants?

Eyezswideshut · 27/11/2019 16:28

But how do you know that man over there is really the father of that baby? I mean they are so likely to rape, he could have stole it. Even if he is,you would probably so something if you knew someone is likely beating a child so why dont you phone the social services for every child who is left alone with their father? Or left with a male teacher?

OldCrone · 27/11/2019 16:28

But if the case is that all men are of equal risk

Why do you think that?

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 27/11/2019 16:28

all men are too much danger around their kids. If they are that likely to rape.

Safeguarding applies to all, yes because men are statistically more likely to be abusers.
What is your point?

Ereshkigal · 27/11/2019 16:29

know my own partner but I dont know all men so if I really thought that men were they dangerous,I'd be spending most my time stopping them being around kids. Even their own kid. They wouldn't be allowed to teach or anything. Too risky.

Let me ask you why you're so eager to validate male feelings that you're performing mental gymnastics to justify males in women's spaces, yet don't care about women's?

BertrandRussell · 27/11/2019 16:29

@Eyezswideshut I think I have lost track of your argument.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 27/11/2019 16:29

But how do you know that man over there is really the father of that baby? I mean they are so likely to rape, he could have stole it. Even if he is,you would probably so something if you knew someone is likely beating a child so why dont you phone the social services for every child who is left alone with their father? Or left with a male teacher?

Bonkers, you know that.

You started with a semi coherent argument and now you have this?

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 27/11/2019 16:30

i do not think data based on non trans people can be extrapolated to trans people

For the purposes of this comment, let's say males have the propensity to commit sexual assault at a rate of 1 floof per 100 men, where '1 floof' is equal whatever the correct statistical unit is.

Research has also proven that transwomen have exactly the same patterns of crime as men.

So, in a group of men, 1 floof per 100 will go on to commit sexual assault. OK?

And in a group of transwomen, 1 floof per 100 will also go on to commit sexual assault.

That's just how it is.

2BthatUnnoticed · 27/11/2019 16:30

I dunno. I’ve a lifetime of being gnc in female spaces and know plenty of butch women. I have to confess, that third-person account reads quite oddly to me - almost like someone trying to imagine how “gender conforming” women might react to GNC women.

I’m was never bothered to be momentarily thought to be male but getting called a pedo (!? Wtf, Were there kids there?) would give me pause.

Please read my screen shot I added, it matters.

Ok all - Actually off this time Blush

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 27/11/2019 16:31

All men are seen as safeguarding risks, that's how risk evaluation works.

SilverTwist · 27/11/2019 16:31

i do not think data based on non trans people can be extrapolated to trans people.

You're right that data based on women can't be extrapolated to transwomen just because they both have 'women' in their name.

Transwomen should be treated legally, politically and in single-sex spaces as the subset of men that they are, unless and until we get data one day showing that they actually behave significantly differently from men as a group.

I used to think saying 'transwomen are a subset of men' was the most shocking thing anyone could say on here. It would be cruel and tactless (although still true) if it was said in a social situation with a transwoman. When we're debating the rules around single-sex spaces though, it's completely appropriate. Going along with the polite fiction that a transwoman is literally, actually a woman in a context of working out the best way to keep women safe would be completely inappropriate.

TalkingintheDark · 27/11/2019 16:31

lemon your determination to deny women/girls - as the less powerful of the two sex classes in the unbalanced world we live in - the right to have reasonable boundaries is deeply misogynistic.

My head is scrambled too, by the truly appalling internalised misogyny of women like you who stir up hate against other women with your vile accusations of “transphobia” simply because we want boundaries.

That’s all it is. All we want. Boundaries. The right for those of us of the female sex (oppressed for thousands of years by males) to have boundaries when it comes to those of the male sex (oppressors of females for thousands of years). Boundaries that apply to all those of the male sex.

You want to deny us our right to say “no”; it’s that simple. You are trying to destroy everything women have ever fought for. You make a mockery of all the arguments around consent. You are actively trying to bring about a world in which women and girls are not entitled to the boundaries which we, as the more vulnerable and more disempowered of the two sexes, should be entitled to.

You want to disempower women even further than we already are, make us even more vulnerable than we already are.

And some of us are saying “no” to you.

No, we’re not transphobic. We don’t go looking for trans individuals to beat up or harass. We don’t sexually assault them. We don’t wish them to be discriminated against at work, in housing, healthcare or any other area.

We just want boundaries. The right to say NO. Because a world that doesn’t respect a woman’s right to say no is truly a shithole, and anyone working to bring about that sort of environment has no business flinging accusations of bigotry at anyone else at all, least of all at the women doing their damndest to stop it being such a toxic shithole.

You are the problem, lemon. You and your internalised misogynistic bigotry that has blinded you to reason and rational argument, that is making you a tool for those who wish to shut women’s rights right down. Well done you.

Eyezswideshut · 27/11/2019 16:32

It seems the only reason people think they are dangerous is because they were born male. Nothing other than that. If being male is such a risk factor for rape and violence then as a society, we shouldnt leave any men with children because we cant tell when they will lose control and rape or kill them.