Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

[tryandempathise]

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

No we don’t accept that. Not at all

great, how are prison authorities / the saturday girl at John Lewis / women in communal changing rooms to tell if the male in front of them is genuinely trans Fieldofgreycorn ?

we could get everything sorted today

James Barrett has already written at length about the potential likelihood for male offenders to lie about being transgender in prison. As submitted to the government.

Who promptly ignored his evidence.

I dont know about all this other stuff but I do know that my butch lesbian cousin has been accused of being a man in the changing rooms by some women convinced she was in there to rape them. They called security and everything. She was mortified because one woman screamed that she had no breasts and is obviously a man. My cousin is chubby with small breasts.

I cant agree with anyone who would treat someone like that based on what they look like. Before that, I would have said people protesting might have a point but not if they plan to enforce their point that way.

Oh FFS. Are we allowed to say "that happened" here or will I get a strike?
I don't even care. That didn't fucking happen.

I'm so sick of these bullshit derailers making up random convenient stories that changed their minds when they would have agreed with us before!

I do know that my butch lesbian cousin has been accused of being a man in the changing rooms by some women convinced she was in there to rape them

can you expand on this story? how do you know the women thought your cousin was there to rape them?

OP, I don’t think your name change was in fact accidental for one second. I think you posted under a new name and then reverted to another name to back yourself up with arguments as a different poster but weren’t very smart about it.

For me it's not about hating Trans at all! All I know is I am trying to raise my DD to feel confident in saying No i don't like this (whatever this may be) Standing up for herself when she feels like her rights (especially women rights) are being trampled on in the workplace etc, but scream Bigot/hater etc if women raise these concerns? Would be very hypocritical of me and wrong

The issue around sport for me is simple. It's an unfair advantage to be able to identify as a woman and win titles, over women who have trained for years, faced obstacles men dont normally face. Just to be told "Dont moan or we will label you as a trans hater" Etc. Me and my partner for example, He is 6"3 to my 5"2, his biceps are not that far off the size of my head. Like hell are you going to stick me in a boxing ring with him and tell me: It's ok, you are both women. (In this scenario Even if my DP transitioned fully, his height and weight would give him an unfair advantage against most women)

HRTFT but here’s my attempt to explain.

If girls discuss fears about male students self-identifying into their change rooms (no transition required) - this is the type of bullying they can get

If this was sent by “boys” or “men,” schools would act and society might care. But “She/her” in the bio? All the grown ups are so scared of “transphobia”, they abandon girls (12 yo)

this is wrong [note, NATWALT]

HTH

I reject gender stereotypes.
There is no such thing as a female brain or a male brain. Teaching children there is sets us back to the dark ages!
Gender stereotypes are the very thing that feminism fights against.
Trans ideology reenforces gender stereotypes and that pits feminism against trans ideology.

Trans women want the use of female spaces and often quote male violence against them in male spaces as the reason.
Instead of combating the male violence, women are expected to make room.
Self Id makes all spaces unsafe for both trans women and women because there are some men that will abuse that entitlement to access the spaces for nefarious reasons. It happens already.
Therefore self id divides the world into male and everyone else.
Male privilege wins and women are buggered!

I am very much a live how you want to live person but not if it has a detrimental affect on others.

can you expand on this story? how do you know the women thought your cousin was there to rape them?

Because they shouted their beliefs several times to both her and the security guard they summoned to remove the "perverted man" from the toilets. Sorry it wasnt changing rooms, I was getting mixed up with that other thread about the swimming pool and the naked man in the male changing rooms. It was in the toilets in Stratford Westfield about 2 or 3 years ago Xmas time.

Me again!
Your refusal to believe trans women's self identification is transphobic. Comparing it to identifying as a waterfall or identifying as tall is transphobic. Like the anti- gay marriage argument 'would you let me marry my dog?'.
Why do you know more about their experience than they do?

Btw When I had very short hair, I was double-checked as a guy on occasion (I dressed man-ish, I guess) - funny looks etc..

“Ah, I’m a woman!”
“Omg - sorry!”
“All good!”

STOP falsely invoking the “Terrible Trauma Suffered by GNC Women in the Bathroom when Other Women Momentarily Wonder About Them!!” In a disgusting attempt to shame women into giving up their boundaries.

Creepy and gross and prince Andrew was more convincing tbh.

lemonsqueasy

Me again!
Your refusal to believe trans women's self identification is transphobic.

Why, exactly?

Comparing it to identifying as a waterfall or identifying as tall is transphobic.

You asked if we thought some people needed therapy. I asked you a question about what you thought I should do if I believed I was a waterfall.

You haven't answered. Could you explain?

Why would anyone know more about someone else's experience than they do?

Why, for example, would an XY person think they know what it's like to be an XX person?

It's a puzzle, right?

Well if the answer to stopping people transitioning is to be more flexible with gender roles then you surely it would make sense to be outraged that someone asked you to prove your sex just because you don't wear dresses or make up.

FWIW, it was the way that these women approached my cousin. She said at the time that sensitively asking and then accepting her answer would have been ok. Not great but okay. Accusing her of being a man and then shouting and calling security when she wouldn't admit it is what she found incredibly traumatic.

Why do you know more about their experience than they do?

How can a male have a "female" experience? What even is a typically female experience? Periods? Pregnancy? They can't have that. Not because it's "exclusion" and women are mean, but because they are male.

You seemed to be grasping it earlier, I'm rather amused to see you've doubled down with your lack of any coherent argument.

To be clear, I say that as someone mistaken myself as a guy on occasion - likewise my sister and her wife, and a few women in their circle

None of us consent to creeps using this to shame other women, get over it

Off to Bunbury now, all the best with with screen shots 🥰

Why, for example, would an XY person think they know what it's like to be an XX person?

Quite.

Because they shouted their beliefs several times to both her and the security guard they summoned to remove the "perverted man" from the toilets

so they shouted 'you're here to rape us'?

Why do you know more about their experience than they do?

I find it hugely offensive to be told that TW know what’s it’s like to be a woman when they’ve never been one. I’ve no idea what it’s like to be a man as I’m a woman and wouldn't never dream of telling a man as such. I bet they don’t get talked over in meetings for a start

A quick newspaper search tells me that my cousin's experience is not unique

m.newstimes.com/local/article/Woman-mistaken-for-transgender-harassed-in-7471666.php#photo-10075104

We cant have people using their fear to harass and accuse people of being dangerous when we know that most men arent dangerous even if most dangerous people are men.

I dont even think the woman in that article is a lesbian. She just had short hair because she donated it.

Self ID
Self Id makes all spaces unsafe for both trans women and women because there are some men that will abuse that entitlement to access the spaces for nefarious reasons. It happens already.

Your refusal to believe trans women's self identification is transphobic

Ok lemonsqueasy, so the rapist Karen White is a woman because he says so? The rapist Martin Ponting is a woman because he says so?

NB, not saying all men are rapists, just these particular ones. I'm interested in how far your acceptance without exception goes.

Why do you know more about their experience than they do?

It's not that though is it? It's more disagreeing about the meaning of their experience. Does a strong feeling of being Z make me actually Z, does it justify me being treated socially, legally and politically as Z, 24/7, no exceptions? Is that automatic for any value of Z (male, female, black...)? What about people who are clearly, identifiably, objectively part of group Z? Do they get a say in my 'feeling' meaning that I must always be treated as part of their group, even though there is nothing objective to back this feeling up at all?

Why would anyone know more about someone else's experience than they do?

I've thought of another analogy to treat you lovely people to. It's like how you can't define what Britishness is til you live abroad. You're still British abroad but living the life and obeying the customs of the foreign country. That's when you realise what it is to be British.