Newsnight now

[PaleBlueMoonlight]

Now

Italian, you asked why is the LGBT+ community not asking these questions too, why are they not supporting these people who desist and de transition.

They are doing that- just not the mainstream corporate organisations. The LGB community have been told for years that their interests and identity are so aligned with trans people’s (despite ‘being trans’ not being a sexual orientation) that they should be treated as a consistent demographic together, ‘LGBTQ+‘ which has been appalling for a lot of LGB people- particularly lesbians, now being pressured to accept self identifying ‘lesbians’ with penises as sexual partners.

Hence the protests at Pride by Get the L Out followed more recently by the forming of the LGB Alliance by former founders of Stonewall and the Detransition advocacy network formed by Charlie Evans.

It’s the Health Research Authority who regulate medical research in the UK, who have the power to stop research if there are problems with it. I thought HRA’s response to the previous investigation prompted by Newsnight back in July was very weak. More here:

‘Questions remain over puberty-blockers, as review clears study’
By Deborah Cohen and Hannah Barnes
BBC Newsnight, 15 October 2019
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50046579

There's also an article on the BBC news site linked to this interview, titled 'How do I go back to the Debbie I was?'

Thanks ChattyLion - have sent a comment to the Beeb. I have suggested they cover the erosion of single sex spaces next and stop waffling about there being "over a hundred genders".

Placemarking

I’ve watched and sent very positive feedback and suggested there are very many more questions to be asked.

Agree we should let the BBC know that this was a good piece and it's about time it got some critical sunlight. But it's important to leave them in no uncertain state about the vitally important use of language. The 'assigned at birth' narrative has crept in everywhere and needs to be squished.

I didn't see this but will catch up today and I read the article on BBC this morning.

Not taking anything away from EM (as she sounds informed personally and she is brave to speak up as no doubt she will get lots of shit for it) but the cynical part of me is thinking that this back pedalling from the BBC is due to them being aware of Harry and Maya' cases and thinking shit shit shit.

I do feel, personally, that the tide may be turning at long last. Reading the article my heart went out to Debbie and was a timely reminder to have sympathy for people, especially young people who have been affected by this. It's really hard not to (very selfishly) just feel vindicated after all the abuse GC women have received and the sense of relief that our voices are actually being heard.

Brilliant will watch later

The psychiatrist saying there may not be evidence but there is a wealth of clinical experience going back decades made me think of other psychiatric practices that had a wealth of clinical experience going back decades.

Like electro-convulsive therapy, lobotomy, insulin shock therapy, deep sleep therapy...

Yes ChattyLion I was thinking specifically of the LGBT+ community not lesbians as a distinct group. I know lesbians have been highlighting a lot of this for ages and have been (along with other women) rightly concerned.

the cynical part of me is thinking that this back pedalling from the BBC is due to them being aware of Harry and Maya' cases and thinking shit shit shit

I agree. And they I have employed 400 or 500 trans people, way above the average.

So this should be interesting.

The psychiatrist saying there may not be evidence but there is a wealth of clinical experience going back decades made me think of other psychiatric practices that had a wealth of clinical experience going back decades.

Like electro-convulsive therapy, lobotomy, insulin shock therapy, deep sleep therapy...

As an aside, ECT is actually still used (or at least was when I was a medical student) and I believe has been shown in modern times to be effective in some cases of severe depression.

Well apart for the assigned crap (we really could do with someone defining sex and gender on the bbc) the report was very good.

I didn't feel the woman interviewed had any real insight.

Actually, I know someone who would not be here if it wasn't for ECT and she was very grateful for the treatment, though it was obviously phenomenally tough and she lost a lot of memory.

As a total aside.

I feel the lesbian element wasn't pushed enough - it wasn't gay pride; it was a lesbian march Charlie spoke at.

ECT use was pretty indiscriminate for decades though. Much more judicious now.

Can I say that in the adult gender service my depressed, anxious autistic 21 year old has been offered NO therapy. After 2 40 minute consultation she has been referred for hormones.

Yet the NHS statement read out on Newsnight said:

"All patients with gender dysphoria have extensive access to regular psychotherapy and counselling support, with a more detailed assessment process for those with complex physical and mental health problems".

They are lying.

I can imagine. They need to be called to account.

Lui Asquith said 'You can't make someone be trans.' So what does that mean for these people who identify as trans and then detransition? This should be a very important question for the trans community, IMHO

Oh the answer is always: "They weren't really trans." which is a pitiless and cruel answer.

ECT is still used. Treatment of last resort, poorly understood but works for some people.

It is clear they just don’t have the financial resources to offer significant psychotherapy/counselling on an ongoing basis. It is much cheaper to put people on puberty-blockers/hormones. Surgery is rationed with long waiting times but many don’t want surgery and some of those that do will go private to avoid the wait. If GIDS had sufficient funds they could fight the political pressure form Mermaids and other TRAs better, but I think the amount required would be pretty vast to be honest.

ECT use was pretty indiscriminate for decades though. Much more judicious now. Probably true.

@Smallblanket I can't imagine how painful & heart-wrenching it is for you (I have young relative taking this on at just 17 - weekly testosterone shots - my heart breaks for her being used as a human guinea pig - among other things).

I’ll watch this tonight

I seem to recall EM reacting incredulously to a tweet about JY. Ring any bells with anybody?
Answered my own question!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3642567-Ooh-Emily-Maitlis-just-got-peak-transed-by-Yaniv