Conservative manifesto; no mention of GRA

[MrsSnippyPants]

Long grass it is then. I'll be asking my ppc what happened to those consultation responses.
The word 'gender' does not appear anywhere, FYI

The behaviour of so many remainers, not least their patronising attitude towards people who happen to hold different opinions, has been a real eye opener for me.

Yep, I'm pretty pissed off at being dismissed as a thick racist bigot. The tone has a familiar and unpleasant ring to it. #nodebate I'm pretty cautious about speaking out about it in RL too

Why do you vote Tory, then? What is it about their values or policies that appeals?

Gosh, so many reasons and many why I couldn't vote Labour.

1. The spend, spend, spend of Labour has never been sustainable, I want to see the books balanced so future generations are not left with the debt of this one.

2. I want to see Brexit done and FOM curtailed as I believe the biggest factor in the lack of local employment opportunities has been the huge influx of cheap Eastern European labour. Plus it's just a big ponzi scheme growing the population by importing lots of working age tax payers but long term that is not sustainable.

3. I want people (both women and men) to be empowered to make their own choices in life. Benefit policies often restrict the available choices as it is often not worth even trying. I know UC has a bad press but I personally know many families claiming it who are very much in favour.

4. I dislike the righteous rhetoric we hear from many Labour supporters. e.g Brexiteers = Scum, T**fs = Scum, Tory voters = Scum, The Rich = Scum, lack of support for X, Y, Z = Scum. that is not politics. I want the opinions of every individual respected.

5. And for women specifically I feel their lives will be improved by a party that believes in freedom, empowerment and respect rather than what I see as enslavement to the state under Labour policies.

The behaviour of so many remainers, not least their patronising attitude towards people who happen to hold different opinions, has been a real eye opener for me.

Disappointment and anger can make people act like like bratty children. You see it in the attitudes of some Remainers who are furious that the majority of people who voted for Brexit didn’t listen to their “enlightened” views on EU membership. They didn’t stop to think that there wasn’t just one reason people chose Brexit and have chosen to monster all Leavers as racists.

Similarly, the Leavers are branding everyone who want to delay Brexit, or seek a second vote because of the concerns around electoral fraud and what deal we are actually going to get, as enemies of democracy.

And for women specifically I feel their lives will be improved by a party that believes in freedom, empowerment and respect rather than what I see as enslavement to the state under Labour policies

Well said Thingybob. Brilliant post. Over the last twenty years, freedom, which is the definitional philosophy of Conservatism, has been under serious attack. The totalitarian urge to no platform, ban and demonise any dissenting viewpoint has resulted in the current Orwellian dystopia. Where people are sacked for stating an objective biological truth. The last thing required now is a political party colonised by an aggressive undemocratic lobby group who have taken a battering ram to sex segregated spaces.

Those are pretty much the reasons I vote Conservative too, Thingybob

Well said.

If I end up voting Tory it will be on libertarian/free speech grounds, also the economy, and likelihood of having my sex based rights removed.

Bovary - agree. While the Tories have gone a bit more knee jerk authoritarian lately, the absolute intolerance of the left (not just Labour) and their abuse/mischaracterisation of those with different views should concern everyone.

I have always previously been a labour voter and have never considered voting Conservative. I have always lived in safe Tory seats and so I guess all of my votes have been fairly worthless.

I also live in a seat which voted by a large majority to Remain in the EU and yet our Tory MP is a rabid Brexiteer. He is certainly GC but for the reasons Thoughtlessinengland gives in her point 2) yesterday evening and not because he supports women.

However, it's now said that the LibDems are pushing him in the polls (mentioned in the Sunday Times yesterday) so suddenly he's becoming more visible around local issues that he's previously and has always advocated for more money in health and education.

I had intended to spoil my ballot paper but I'm now in the peculiar position of considering voting Tory in order to prevent the seat becoming LibDem. Very strange times.

If you think anyone’s rights are safer under the tories because they haven’t specified otherwise, you haven’t been paying attention for the last decade.

That should have said "...he's becoming more visible around local issues that he's previously ignored but he has always advocated for more money in health and education."

1) The spend, spend, spend of Labour has never been sustainable, I want to see the books balanced so future generations are not left with the debt of this one

That viewpoint has been very successfully sold to people...but all governments borrow. In fact these past and continuing years of austerity saw the government having to borrow even more. And if people are being so lowly paid that they are taken out of tax altogether, then governments have even less revenue. Sometimes you absolutely have to spend in order to invest and generate further revenue.

Value also has to be about human & social value - not just monetary.
And neglect & austerity leads to degeneration and decay - meaning that future generations will have to pick up the tab at some point.

"2015 George Osborne, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, announced that he intended to implement a law whereby the government must deliver a budget surplus if the economy is growing.[4] Academics have criticised this proposal with Cambridge University professor Ha-Joon Chang saying the chancellor was turning a blind eye to the complexities of a 21st-century economy that demanded governments remain flexible and responsive to changing global events.[5]

Since 1980 there have only been six years when a budget surplus has been delivered, twice whilst the Conservative's John Major was Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1988 and 1989 and four times whilst Labour's Gordon Brown was Chancellor, in 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001.[6]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_budget

Another very interesting link which shows it is actually the Conservative party which borrows most : www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/ : Richard Murphy (61) is a chartered accountant and a political economist.

40 year Labour voter here. I live in a very safe Conservative seat.

I knew that I couldn't vote for Labour this time (not just because of GRA etc) but was open to reading what the other parties had to say before making a decision about my vote. (Actually I mean 'other' party as the Lib Dems and Greens were automatic 'no' given their stance.)

I've thought about this thread overnight and this morning, but I do still feel that y option is to spoil my ballot paper.

Lest we forget....

"I'm afraid there is no money."

Liam Byrne 2010

If you had told me three years ago that I would seriously consider voting Conservative, I would have laughed you out of the house. But here I am, EU citizen, and generally supportive of redistributive policies to protect the weakest in society. I am strongly critical of the way in which Tories have treated especially disabled people, I actually think it's shameful.

BUT the dishonesty about something so basic as human sexual dimorphism, women's biology and the fact of male violence coming from the 'progressive' side has shocked me to the core. If they are lying about this, what else are they lying about?

I am in a safe Labour seat, with the Lib Dems a distant second, so I don't actually think my vote matters but I'm strongly considering giving it to the Tories to make a point. The Labour leadership is taking women for granted and it has to stop.

Thanks for the links Justhadathought, I do look at them and take onboard differences of opinion. My logical brain also tries to take onboard other factors such as the economy a government inherits, the promises a previous government made, the current economic climate and the distinction between borrowing and deficit. Yet many of those things are difficult to quantify over very different time periods.

By the way I haven't always voted Tory, I think I've ticked almost every conceivable option over the years. As a younger more idealistic person I was much more left wing but over the years I have drifted further to the right although I don't think I'm a lost cause. A more moderate Labour party (or a Lib Dem one) could win my vote another time.

People who have their reasons (personal, ideological, party-political) to lean towards socialism, conservatism, centrism - continue to have those.

Then there are stark issues which come up. Brexit. GRA. X. or Y. In many cases these stark issues sit comfortably with the voting reasons above. In some other cases they don’t.

So a lifelong centrist who has a pile of reasons to vote Lib Dem might face stark issue of Brexit and it aligns with their vote perfectly and they vote for it. The problem obviously occurs when the same lifelong centrist Lib Dem faces GRA as the stark issue alongside Brexit as stark issue and is left flummoxed.

At that point suddenly this person is faced with (1) stay with centrist ideology, continue to vote with party that aligns with that, and which tackles stark issue A, bit seriously maligns Stark issue B.

(2) withdraw ones vote

(3) go against lifelong politics, and much alignment with various other attributes of party they would otherwise vote for and give the vote to a different party for whom there is nothing but disdain/lack of alignment but (perceived or real) alignment on stark issue B.

So the “dilemma” here is for such people. Not for feminist Tories. Or for feminist right of centre centrists. The problem is for lifelong feminist socialists who are anti TWAW.

In that case it is fair to say that some of them might think - ok - yes, indeed my anti TWAW stark issue is supported by the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg, Peter Bone, Priti Patel, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage. But why? WHY are they on my side on this one? Is it because they are now all radical feminists? Why is the Daily Mail and the Express on my side on this issue? Richard Littlejohn? Why? Are they all now radical feminists? If the answer is a resounding no - then the feminist socialist truly cannot give their vote to these people or those who represent them, prop them and share their politics. Then the feminist socialist who is anti TWAW aid truly homeless. That distinction - that pause - of asking WHY does this person suddenly appear on my side when nothing else they stand for aligns with me - and of asking what are the broader overall implications of giving my feminist socialist vote to these people - often holds the key to the Homelessness for many here. There is not an answer for such politically homeless people but to imagine that they will suddenly find it credible, appetising or even hold-my-nose-and believe that Farage/ReesMogg is my friend on this, is expecting a tad much of them.

Those already aligned with right of centrism, or conservatism and who are anti TWAW are not in a similar boat.

It's a shit choice for most of us. None of the parties with any chance of Parliamentary influence are clearly going to stop self-ID becoming either law or de facto "law" in the places where it really might cause the harm.

The goal for me is to hope that time helps to solve the problem. That means voting for whichever party which will enable the introduction of self-ID most slowly so that in the meantime the issues get discussed, the consequences become more apparent, and the public becomes more aware.

I get that, Thoughtlessinengland. It must be a very difficult position to be in right now.

Oohoo just seen this .. behold Conservative GC women... This is your moment!

www.ipetitions.com/petition/conservative-womens-pledge

That means all the main four parties have now got a women's rights for single sex spaces. This is good news!

Has the SNP created one too?

I'd sign if i was a Tory but I'm not. Should i sign anyway?

I think it's great that women within all the parties are acknowledging that this is an issue and it'd be good to see further cross party cooperation on it too to drive the message home.

Has the SNP created one too?

I think they were first .

Noticed the WEP didn't reference them though in their declaration in this post, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3752222-WEP-womens-declaration and I wondered why not?

I'd sign if i was a Tory but I'm not. Should i sign anyway?

Probably best to sign the one for the party you'd be most inclined to vote for if this GC stuff wasn't an issue. I think as long as we all sign one of them, it should ensure they all get the same message

If they are lying about this, what else are they lying about?

This is one of my concerns. How can you trust anyone who insists that not only can humans change sex, they can do so by filling out a form? It's so blatantly anti logic that either the person saying it is thick as pigshit or they're being dishonest. Neither are qualities I find reassuring in a someone who would like to run a country.