Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

Say it how it is. You don’t want men in this scenario, and mtf are men.

Not sure why you're trying to make out that people aren't saying it like it is. No one is hiding that they believe this. It's not about whether MTF people are trans. It's about the fact that they are male. It's not transphobia, it's the right to be treated with dignity in and respect for our needs in the health care system.

TheProdigalKittensReturn

(I've also got a related Mansun song from the days when open discussion of fetishes was allowed stuck in my head now.)

Stripper Vicar?

I could not possibly confirm!

This thread is like the Ariston and on and on advert!

Yes, Bunny - you can read. You interpret correctly what we are saying. Human beings cannot change sex and women are entitled to a same sex HCP for intimate procedures even if it makes some opposite sex HCPs a bit sad.

@saraclara some men might prefer to have a male with regard to DISCUSSING let alone examining them for male issues - so of course that should be permissible too. (Think male cancers of reproductive organs,& discussion of erectile function etc) embarrassment isn't a single sex issue

If failing to believe unconditionally in a male's chosen gender identity and not treating them in every way, exactly as if they were the sex they'd choose to be (regardless of the barriers/issues/trauma etc for you) is transphobic....

I'm afraid doing so is gynephobic.

You can either do what the male person feels they need, or what the female person feels they need. In this equation, you're putting one person of the two under the bus.

If it's the male person - they may feel upset, rejected, not validated in their gender, and this may be very distressing for them.

If it's the female person - they may be unable to access health care, accept necessary treatment, and possibly die through lack of it.

Either you have to prioritise one and justify it, or you have to come up with a third solution. Like specifying, people can ask for a specific same sex hcp if they need one, and everyone accepting this is in the best interests of that particular patient.

Come on Maya's judge.

Do people have the right to not believe in genderism/that people can change sex, and say so without it being called 'transphobia' and 'hate'?

Is it reasonable to believe objectively that a TW is biologically male, and respond to them accordingly, regardless of their subjective self perception?

To what extent must people sacrifice their own needs and interests to support someone in a belief that they do not share?

Not only do you think it’s ok to exclude a whole swathe of humanity as far as this subject goes, but you have firmly closed minds to OTHER females who do not. You can’t just say ‘we’re right, so shut up’. That’s exactly how women used to be treated by males and society
I've been busy and missed a lot, but I dont recall anyone saying this. I have seen plenty of you do you, but I wont accept a man doing my smear. And FWIW I think the same. You want anyone to do your smear, crack on. I will not have one at all ever if I get a man trying to do mine. And i bloody struggle having one at all with women hcps. No one is "right" but we used to get a choice of who does our intimate checks. Now it looks like they're going off piste and telling us we're wrong.

Such a weird thread. 36 pages of people saying xyz and on page 36 someone saying 'Aha! You guys think xyz! Go on, admit it!'

"You think the earth revolves around the sun!"

"...Yes? As do most people?"

"Are you actually saying that when it's extremely cold in the UK and there is a clear sky, I will probably have to scrape ice off my car windscreen? What if I don't have a car? What if I actually live in an equatorial country? This is madness!"

If you thought the beardy comment was far-fetched, Bunny, you can’t have heard of Alex Drummond? www.amazon.co.uk/Grrl-Alex-Personal-Transgender-Identity/dp/0957132514?tag=mumsnetforu03-21#immersive-view_1575394982921

empress

I am eating.

There's just no excuse for that sheepskin boots and beard combo.

I'm sure I'll get told off for commenting negatively on appearance and holding poor Alex to impossibly womanly standards. 😉

empress I am eating.

Sorry!

Tan boots and black tights isn't a brilliant combination, it has to be said. They do say colorblindness is more common in males.

It's the cutesy feet

ah, those are Uggs, aren't they? I read in the grauniad this weekend that 'Uggs are back, this time for men' so.....he's a man! proof!

Well, Uggs are expensive (overpriced) so the pay gap should come in handy!

Also the silliest part of this thread has now teleported over to some poor random person's thread about not feeling comfortable with the prospect of a male midwife in AIBU. This whole argument in which some people are irrationally infuriated by the idea of women preferring female HCP for intimate procedures seems to be spreading like the zombie rage virus from 28 Days Later. What is going on?

How very dare you have boundaries? Have you any idea how prejudiced and mean it is to say no to a male, especially when he's trained for and is paid to provide the service you require? If you hurt his feelings, he will perhaps find it momentarily mildly embarrassing and then go about his day like anyone else in a healthcare job. What kind of bigoted monster are you? Lie down and let you knees fall apart and stop making such a fuss.

/BoundaryRageVirus

They're everywhere and they're all so angry! I just wonder what set it off, the particular fixation on women saying no to men in a healthcare context.

I suppose it's a bit like your mother getting very irked if you don't finish your dinner because of all the starving children in Africa. A kind of collective 'you should be grateful for what you have!' anger at our 'privilege' in thinking we can say no just because.

Actually, that might be exactly what lies beneath the whole 'C*s privilege' rubbish - a deep seated resentment that women are no longer content as a class to accept what they have and a proper MRA based offended anger at what are perceived as unreasonable demands, because of this age old idea that women should be grateful for what we have. It's the heart of that question 'has feminism gone too far?'

It may very well be at its root the 7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

I’m horrified by the misogyny from particular posters here. WTF!

No woman has to validate ANYONE’s gender identity by providing access to her vagina. This is a seriously creepy discourse.

If you believe TWAW for all purposes, including those of your own vagina, that’s fine. Go for it!

But don’t you dare try to shame me, or any other woman, for preferring a person of her own sex. Far out, this is grim.

Wines - I get my bp checked regularly due to medications I take. When taken by a woman it’s fine, when taken by a man, even a doctor I know and trust it’s significantly higher. From what I’ve been told this is common with white coat syndrome- that women have representative results when tested by women. Now I’m sure someone could argue that i might have had it tested by passing tw many times without realising, I’m not getting into that arguement, but the legal redefinition would include all the Alex Drummonds et al as women, and ofcourse all women can tell then. So it can be argued it’s not even about whether validating identity so much as getting accurate medical results (there’s that pesky science again). I could be bending over backwards to validate the 6ft male looking woman with the Adam’s apple and beard, but my body controls my bp not my mind and the nhs should care about getting representative results from my body.

I’d also wonder what happens when it comes to breastfeeding councillors? Currently to train as one a mother (or ‘rent’) must have breastfeed for minimum of 6 months. Now if we can’t specify what sex hcp we have treat us as it’s discriminatory then aren’t we equally discriminating against transwomen who need validation by new mums being forced to accept that implants on a male body can also produce milk for infants?

This logic thing is super hard. Damn science and those pesky babies that need actual sustenance not the imaginary kind.