No person can consent to their own death, or to injury to cause death

[Dangertime]

Verdict on the Grace Millane case - murder

Justice Moore to the jury:
"Consent is not relevant to murder. No person under New Zealand law can consent to their own death, or to injury to cause death" and Justice Moore tells the jury that "with all that in mind, they have to answer the question - Did Grace consent to be strangled by the accused to the degree and duration of force applied to her neck?"

(Quoting from the live coverage)

www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117069680/grace-millane-murder-trial-latest-updates

Really pleased to hear this. RIP Grace and deepest sympathy to her poor family, having to listen to all that

Thank heavens for a sane verdict. My condolences to Grace's family.

@wowfudge I suspect defence teams will stop using that defence when they realise subsequent actions will be the ones that frame the defendant guilty.

It should be noted the other famous case were a woman was put in a suitcase after being murdered by her male partner has caused the Hong Kong riots.

If a man was murdered in this way, would his sexual history be trawled through too?

Doubt it. Only women who ask for it eh?

I’m really happy that this judge has stated you can’t consent to your own death.
I’m not holding my breath for this to translate to our own courts sadly

I was listening to this on the Today programme earlier (they only mentioned the "rough sex" defence once and focused mainly on the "outpouring of support" from the people of NZ). They also played a clip of Jacinda Ardern apologising that Grace was killed in NZ, a country that prides itself on being safe, and that she was let down somehow. But it's not safe, is it? It can't be, because there are men there. The same is true of every country in the world - you cannot call yourself a safe place when you're not willing to name male violence as the problem and look at cases like this within a wider context, as We Can't Consent To This are trying to. I'm relieved at this verdict, but the mainstream media is still looking upon it as some kind of aberration involving an evil man, not something that seems to be becoming more and more common.

Let's not forget that New Zealand has decriminalised sex work and brothels, and now has some of the most "liberal" attitudes to prostitution in the world. I can't see how that contributes towards a safe environment for women myself.

Thank fuck he didn’t get away with it. Her poor family. That poor girl.

It is a criminal case where guilt has to be decided beyond reasonable doubt. The defendant has been found to be a liar by the jury.

There are, sadly, lots of examples of murdered people's bodies being put in suitcases.

The forensic pathologist who examined Grace Millane said he had never seen a case of death resulting from consensual sexual strangulation in New Zealand, calling such an incident “incredibly rare” worldwide.

British judges, take note.

nettie do we know his name though over here??

^ yy justcly.

If a man was murdered in this way, would his sexual history be trawled through too?

The only time I have ever seen it for a man is the GCHQ man who was found in a suitcase - Gareth? But there were a lot of strange things round his story and with the GCHQ element you weren’t sure what to believe. But that is one compared to countless women, which I suppose is why it sticks in my head.

Re the anonymity thing. Could he have future charges to face?

Oh, yes we do know it.

Sincere condolences to Grace's family.

Awful case and so glad the judge came to the right verdict but again the deceased sex life should never have been brought up in a murder case. Totally disguating.

RIP Grace

Have not read thru the thread, but so relieved at this verdict. Have been so angry at the defense, at wokeness, and so much more.....will now read the thread.
💪

A news report I heard yesterday failed to mention that he went shopping for a suitcase to put her body in, went on another tinder date the next day, and took pictures of her naked body after he had killed her. If that was the news report someone was hearing for the first time, you could easily believe he was innocent. I was disgusted they had left out so many vital pieces of information.

The chilling thing is that this could very well have gone the other way.

Thanks, 3rd wave feminists.

Apparently that hotel he lived in was one that 'hosts' people on parole..

I thought NZ had a policy of not naming defendants to avoid them being glorified by the weirdos and nutjobs out there. Too often, our (British) media leave the victim anonymous and dehumanised yet make the murderer sound like some kind of hero.

Thank goodness. I was worried he was going to get manslaughter or less from all the details coming out in the press. Maybe I'm just used to the so called justice system here in the UK. This case needs to set a precedent as sadly I doubt this will be the last of its kind.
He was named and pictured when he was first taken in as a suspect and its still visible online so it's strange he's still got 'anonymity' now.

Excellent comment, *EoinMcLovesCakeJumper. Male pattern violence is the problem so many find unspeakable, because halt that and the whole patriarchy comes tumbling down.

Not to mention the fact @EoinMcLovesCakeJumper that NZ has once of the worst DV rates in the world. Not sure how Ardern considers it safe - it's a very dangerous country for women indeed.

So pleased about this verdict. I do worry that our young women have been brainwashed into thinking they have to like this sort of fringe stuff to be exciting sexual beings. I am in no way sexually naive but I would never allow someone to practice erotic asphyxiation on me but from the evidence in this case I can only assume it is increasingly common.

Poor grace. RIP.

Really pleased to see this on twitter this morning. The right result.

Rest in peace Grace. Hope her family find some way of finding closure.

I’m really happy that this judge has stated you can’t consent to your own death.I’m not holding my breath for this to translate to our own courts sadly

and your understanding of the law in the UK is ?