Half of all women will be carers by age 46

[Kit19]

I work in this field and am not remotely surprised. The entire care system would collapse without family carers - men become carers too of course but generally at a later age and more likely to care for partners rather than parents

Yes there are higher number of women caring for their parents BUT that is their CHOICE. Men are better at putting in boundaries.

If women refused take on the bulk of the caring, adult social care would have to step in to replace that care. I will never waste years of my life being a full time carer, I want to maintain a parent-daughter relationship with my parents that does not depend on a caring role.

Hollow laugh here, that's the theory, but in practice, nothing. Social services did nothing for my DF and for weeks later he was dead. My DF would have starved or died on the floor alone if I hadn't stepped in. When the choice is between leaving a disabled and vulnerable person who cannot move around safely or feed themselves totally alone and stepping in to care, it's not really a genuine choice. I did eventually sort out private care a couple of times a day, but it's so expensive, so I was still doing the other visit and someone still needs to do all the life admin.

@AnotherEmma I do not believe it is a feminist issue. It is a CHOICE women choose to make and a responsibility they decide to take on. Men do also take on the caring role but are better at putting boundaries in place.

As someone who works in adult social care, I do not see this as a sexism issue at all.

The protest would be good for women in the future but the short term repercussion of the protest would be their own mother or father suffering. Nope it does not work like that, if someone needs support then support can be set up very quickly.

Carry on being martyl but the support is there.

Some choice. I do think women would benefit from refusing to step up, but the thing is, it'd be their OWN parents suffering from that ''protest''. The protest would be good for women in the future but the short term repercussion of the protest would be their own mother or father suffering.

Exactly this.

"I do not believe it is a feminist issue. It is a CHOICE women choose to make"

This is pretty much Feminism 101: choices are not made in a vacuum. Choices are informed by our circumstances and by the society around us. Which is a patriarchy.

Just because a woman chooses to do something doesn't mean it's not a feminist issue. Women choose to stay in an abusive relationships. Does that mean male violence against women isn't a feminist issue?! Of course it is.

ukgift

No it's not! Not for me and I work with a carers project too and hear this over and over again.

Why aren't the numbers sufficient, @5zeds? A much greater proportion of the work that women do is unpaid. What else do you need? It’s not that they aren’t sufficient it’s that I’m interested beyond the numbers. Which was my original question

@AnotherEmma Turns out some posters don't like us to point out that certain issues are feminist issues because they primarily affect women... hmm, if that's your stance, maybe don't post in feminism chat?! well thank you for that charming welcome. I’m not sure I have “a stance” as such. I was interested (particularly, as it happens, because I AM a carer), so I asked a question. I’d have asked if the same thread had been posted on the SN board or AIBU. Am I supposed to be scared of the feminist boards?

I’m sorry that it depresses you to explain why this is a feminist issue. How limiting.

"if someone needs support then support can be set up very quickly."

I can't believe someone who claims to work in adult social care has actually said this.

So you have no fucking clue about the failings of the service you offer? No clue about the long waiting lists, the high threshold for support and the inadequate provision?

My friend is caring for her elderly mother who also has council funded carers - the council stopped her care with no warning. The alternative care provider has refused to offer care at the times they need. And meanwhile the carer visits are just the tip of the iceberg - my friend does everything else including multiple hospital visits etc.

But sure, my friend can just walk away and leave her mother to it 🙄

It’s completely a feminist issue. If men did it it would be recognised for the relentless, stressful work it is.

I’m a sandwich-er. I had my children while caring for elderly parents. My Dads nursing home phoned me when I was in hospital post section when my DD was in NICU asking me to come in as he was agitated and aggressive, more then likely brewing a UTI. I remember sobbing on the phone to the paramedics that I really really couldn’t get there as I had had a baby 12 hours ago.

I didn’t intend to be a carer. It crept up over time. Hospital appointments became GP appointments became washing hair became giving baths. I doubt I’d have been expected of the same if I were a man

Roxy

It's like people saying they'll never bribe their kids with sweets or have kids that have tantrums in public before they have them, the actual reality turns out to be a bit more complicated than that!

In any of my caring experience I’ve never been reassured that support can be set up easily. At all. I’ve had to fight for everything.

I’ve had to explain to adult social care workers that they can’t just transfer my mother to a hospital 2 hours away from me. I’ve had to explain that no I won’t be available for that and stand firm from lots of pressure and blackmail. I don’t know if you have ever browsed the Elderly Parents section of Mumsnet but go over and say that sentence to them. Most of the regulars need a good laugh

*"if someone needs support then support can be set up very quickly."

I can't believe someone who claims to work in adult social care has actually said this.*

Yes there are teams at the council who provide care in emergency situations while a care package is waiting to be set up with an agency.

My friend is caring for her elderly mother who also has council funded carers - the council stopped her care with no warning. The alternative care provider has refused to offer care at the times they need

So why did they stop?

Are you talking about a Re-anablement package? We had one for my DM following one of her many hospital admissions? It took about 4 weeks to set up

Yes there are teams at the council who provide care in emergency situations while a care package is waiting to be set up with an agency.

That's exactly what I needed. It took two days of phone calls for SS to also agree that's what we needed, and another week for them to call to sort out an assessment. Meanwhile I had to drop everything and do the care myself and sort out private care. The system is cracking under the pressure. Staff aren't adequately trained and then when you do get to speak to someone who knows what they're doing there are a lot more people in the queue before you.

It's not just about feelings, it's about legal entanglements too.

I was forced into a caring role at 19. Social Services told me I would go to prison if I did not do it. This is quite common. They call it "Supporting Young Carers".

I couldn't go to college because of the way the benefits system works. You can't claim if you're in full time education and you can't get loans for part time education. If you're in FTE you have to support the person you care for financially -- they can't claim. So you can't go. That's another brick in the wall.

Even if you find a job you can do from home at random times of night and day, if you work you have to support them completely -- they are your dependant and it's all or nothing. If you can get care and you're on the Fairer Charging For Care system, they can take all of your wages over £131 a week to pay for the care, even if you don't actually receive that care/ cannot spend the budget as the fixed rates are too low or the hours too few to hire anyone. This money may be 'clawed back' by the council every 3 months. This is legal. Housing Benefit is calculated on your wage, not on what your income actually is before the FCFC, so you can't claim that either. Two more bricks in the wall.

I could go on. There are a thousand legal tricks they use to trap you in the home in poverty with no way out, because you are the cheapest worker they can get; you have no employment rights, you have no health and safety protections, you have no working time directive. There's a HUGE incentive to create new carers and prevent them from getting out of it. I got out. It took me eighteen years and I had to almost die a couple times. Most people just die.

People talk a lot about feelings and justice and what is right and wrong. But there are specific, discoverable, laws and rules that have been made that create this web of enslavement by the state. We could unmake them.

Yes there are higher number of women caring for their parents BUT that is their CHOICE.

Well it might be a choice in theory but in reality it's not a choice between me providing care and someone else doing it. It's between me providing care and no-one doing it. And as much as I want to stick to my feminist principles, I'm not willing to leave my mother, who I love very much, in danger and lonely because of my principles.

So my choice is to care for her.

Social care is close to non existent. I have experience of it when my father was alive. It took weeks to set up, and they were very limited in what they were able to provide. We were unable to get help with washing and personal care. If I hadn't been able to shower my dad (and he and I both cried the first time I had to do it), and later to wash him with a sponge, he would have gone the last six months of his life without being washed. And he was doubly incontinent, so if anyone needed washed, he did. Carers could make a cup to tea and give a sandwich, but they weren't allowed to wash up afterwards. So the dishes piled up because my parents were unable to do it. They could re-heat a packaged ready-meal, but couldn't re-heat home made food, due to 'health and safety'.

So many people think that in their old age they will be happy with carers and would never ask their children to look after them, but can anyone honestly say that they might be willing to live for years eating only ready meals and sandwiches, lying in a dirty bed and going months at a time without washing? Because that is the reality of elderly care.

@EverardDigby

Meanwhile I had to drop everything and do the care myself and sort out private care. The system is cracking under the pressure.

This is the problem. If I had a client like your mum, I be thinking "ok, she has her daughter caring for her and searching for private carers. She be ok for a short while. She's not a priority"

Now if I had another client, similar circumstances lets say BUT this client had no family to support her or provide care. I would prioritise this client as she would be at greater risk of harm.

I understand the difficulties as many people do not realise this is how the system works.

I'm 40 and care for my mum who has dementia but I'm lucky to share the caring responsibility with my brothers although my sister has 'opted' out (has caused a bit a rift) but as the eldest I get the lions share. I am well impressed that my brother took mum bra shopping earlier this year no mean feat for a 36yo man who had to actually help her try them on. Hard to tell sizes as she's lost a lot of weight in the past few years.

@ukgift2016 Would you put immense pressure on a daughter to take on this role even though she has explained to you she has work and children? Would you insinuate that her mother would be placed inappropriately if no care package was available? Would you emotionally blackmail a daughter to ease your work load? Because that’s what happened to me

• This is the problem. If I had a client like your mum, I be thinking "ok, she has her daughter caring for her and searching for private carers. She be ok for a short while. She's not a priority"

Now if I had another client, similar circumstances lets say BUT this client had no family to support her or provide care. I would prioritise this client as she would be at greater risk of harm.
*
I understand the difficulties as many people do not realise this is how the system works.

This is shocking in itself. I was perfectly clear that I could not do the care on the basis of (a) my mum potentially being at risk of death in hospital, which had created this situation; (b) being a lone parent with no one to look after DD; (c) having poor health myself and having a rise in blood pressure through stress could potentially threaten my own life. My dad could not move from a chair by himself. I was told to leave him at home alone with a sandwich. If I couldn't get help in this situation this just illustrates how completely appalling the state of social care is. I'm not even sure if I had actually died that anyone would have done anything. You're in cloud cuckoo land as my late DF would have said.

When I phoned back on the second day, the social worker hadn't even got his condition right, not even nearly right, and when I asked her if she knew the symptoms of his actual condition she said no.

Everard

Thanks Koloh. My DF died on my watch, my DM came out of hospital to an empty house. I will always wonder if I hadn't been so stretched and I'd had some help whether things would have been different.

Of course it is a feminist issue. Part of the root cause is the socialisation women get to look after others first. To come home from work tired, deal with stroppy or distressed teenagers and think 'I'd better call in on Mum' rather than exercise, slump in front of the tv or do anything for yourself. That is the reality for millions of women.

One friend of mine, single, no DC, retired early after a huge and gruelling corporate career. Finally has time to rest and recover from burn out. Every day her mum rings and asks if she is busy. Every day my friend 'just pops in' and gets drawn in to caring duties. It is not called caring, it is just requests to pick things up, sort things out, make a few phone calls, help tidy a cupboard, take her to an appointment, etc. Every day. My friend has a brother who is a medical specialist with a family and it is accepted that he is too busy.

I’m sorry I absolutely cannot get past UkGift’s nonsense that amazing emergency care packages are available at the drop of a hat and that adult social care is absolutely sufficient for women to choose not to provide any care. What an absolute crock of shit.

5zeds I’ve probably been someone who has given you an unfairly hard time on this thread so I’d like to apologise. I still feel this is an inherently feminist issue, even if we just take it that it disproportionately affects women without trying to understand how or why. Would you agree with that? That more women are carers so it does affect more women than men.