Maya Forstater Case - Thread 2 for the Mumsnet Massive

[Bardonnay]

Thread 2!

Thanks Sparticus

My wonder is that GC is based on bio though, isn't it? As in, isnt the belief and the bio one and the same?

Therefore science as a belief?
Sorry. No need to explain it to me. I will read through her statement, I've read all the transcripts, and thats all that keeps coming to me, but I'll read up her statement also.

I don't think anyone foresaw that women would have to go to court to fight for the right to believe in facts and biology.

It's about the extent to which others can be compelled to perform and maintain someone else's belief system when they do not share it. I do think that's in the Human Rights Act too.

Good explanation Michelle

So challenging the EA thats its based on belief

Your submission is superb Maya. It could be used as a landmark manifesto for all GC feminists.

Considering the thread about the NHS guidance that requesting same sex hcps is unacceptable, and a woman uncomfortable that a natal male is on the ward should be told it is a female ward and everyone on it is female..... this case is becoming crucial.

Women have to be able to say that someone is male, when they are objectively, factually, irrevocably male. Women have to be able to say that regardless of how someone chooses to subjectively identify, they perceive that person as male, that it is an objective fact that this person is male, and they will be acting accordingly.

I don't think anyone foresaw that women would have to go to court to fight for the right to believe in facts and biology.

The certainly should have, considering how recently men in politics, law, science, and religion, were debating if women are human or a sub species created to serve men.

Just catching up and can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading.

Go Maya

I suppose some science is in essence theory and other science is so complex we haven't got a binary answer and so that's why it makes sense to follow the belief argument. I find it hard to see it from the POV of sex however but I do understand the logic in this case.

When it comes to chromosomes and classification it's clear cut mind you.

Would men purposely allow women to be oppressed so as to keep their chances of a shag up??

Why are you surprised? That's exactly what they've been doing for thousands of years.

Placemarking.
This case was heavily discussed by a group last night and I wanted to firstly get up to speed with events, and also watch with interest,

Maya's published this compilation of live tweets from the case:

medium.com/@MForstater/live-tweets-from-the-tribunal-5bd28f8e39c1

I'd put it in the same category almost as differentiation of species. Its all genetically testable. Its reliable and robust.

I have concerns this will create a test case as science being a belief, and that this law needs to be tested at a much higher level with the experts in each field, it seems to be bottom up with huge ramifications.

Maybe just me.

Just parking this here on Maya’s tribunal thread (sorry) because I am still boggling about it. BBC article on ‘Beauty industry bullying’ which sounds horrible and includes discrimination on grounds of pregnancy: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50436312

Culminates in this supposedly reassuring response FROM A GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT:

‘The Department for Business said in a statement: "Through the Equality Act, employees are protected against harassment in the workplace on the grounds of gender, race, disability, religion or belief, sexual orientation or age, and workers have remedies against this behaviour in the employment tribunals."’

Have the government actually adopted a fake version on the Equality Act officially now?

😮

Therefore science as a belief?

No. The belief bit isn't the science; it's the belief that the science is important for policy that organises society.

Maya explains this well in her witness statement. As she, and many other feminists point out - sex matters.

Thank you Cleg

Yes, sex matters. The word itself seems to be avoided on tv/media now like its the worst ever swear word! The 'gender reveal' parties and the 'gender scans'

So much backtracking on harmful gender stereotypes. I will not do gender. Gender absent, all about the sex.

Any indication on when the next stage of this vital case will happen?

Ms Forstater lost her case. Hard to believe that basic common sense is now controversial.

Link to the judgment here (hope this is allowed, I’m new!):
bit.ly/2PBdwv0

I’m so fucking shocked at this, it’s outrageous

Deeply disturbing. Deeply.

Fucking HELL.

Jesus wept.

"women have no idea how much men hate them" to quote a Seer.