Maya Forstater Case - Thread 2 for the Mumsnet Massive

[Bardonnay]

Thread 2!

@Butterisbest re my last comments on thread 1: I meant Anne Boleyn! If Anne Boleyn had self-ided as a man, she could have argued that her marriage to Henry VIII was invalid and kept her head. Argh, I forgot which queen had what name.

But unlike the cops in the Fair Cop case Lang, MNHQ are open to admitting when they get it wrong or overreach and they do reinstate posts/posters, so there’s that.

It’s early am here, when I went to bed this thread was closed which was bad; now it’s open, initials have been changed back into names and mumsnet people have explained what happened - they acted out of an abundance of caution - and have apologized. Of course it would have been better if it had never been closed in the first place but I don’t think it’s helpful to an open discourse around the moderation process on FWR to keep beating them over the head with what they did.

I think there’s a lot in what chilling19 said and I agree point #4 could be the way to address this circumstance in future. If a post/thread absolutely has to be edited/deleted/closed temporarily while a ‘to be on the safe side look is taken behind the scenes’ then a message to that effect should be put on the post/thread in question.

If a post/thread absolutely has to be edited/deleted/closed temporarily while a ‘to be on the safe side look is taken behind the scenes’ of I were trying to prevent women discussing relevant typical issues I'd see opportunity there to get a board closed once or more covering the period when those women most want to discuss that something, when very valid points are being made that are not in my favour etc. So would still want to see it done carefully.

*if

*topical

dammit

Is there a strikes policy for vexatious complainers too?

Is there a strikes policy for vexatious complainers too?

If there was, it would redress the balance a lot. Likewise, not accepting reports from never-posted accounts.

Irritating as it may be I do have sympathy for MNHQ, especially in the dark watches of the night. I reckon that behind the scenes Justine and co are facing incredible pressure to shut down FWR discussions and preferably MN itself to stop us pesky women you know, expressing opinions. When you see the crap that was spouted in court this week, you can see how unreasonable the woke establishment and TRAs are.
Better that they are over cautious for 24hrs to sustain the long term future of these boards than we lose the baby and the bath water.
Perhaps the B team mods have been briefed to act first and reinstate later.

What's the difference between a strike and a deletion. Is there one?

TL;DR the strike thing is shit and is causing more problems than it solves
Absolutely agree. It appears to be completely arbitrary, there is no consistency and appears be subject to the whim of the moderator on a given shift and whether or not he/she is having a bad hair day. Let’s say that just crossing fingers and hoping for the best when you hit post isn’t really conducive to productive discourse, MNHQ.

Is there a strikes policy for vexatious complainers too?

Read through the pinned post at the top of Feminism Chat, they say this:

Anyone who repeatedly reports similar types of posts that aren’t worthy of deletion – ie simply to be vexatious – will be suspended

I think in order to have your suspension reviewed you basically need to communicate with MNHQ, So many suspended for this reason probably come back again.

Caution in discussion of court cases is definitely understandable.

The strike policy seems to have run its course. The debate is far more mainstream in comparison to when the guidelines were introduced. Added to which, the trans campaigning narrative has rapidly evolved in that time. 18 months ago we were hearing 'born in the wrong body', now it's 'woman because I say I am'. Many women who had sympathy with the former are saying "wait, what?" to the latter.

It seems like a good time to return to normal moderating guidelines. The longstanding posters targeted by vexatious reporters should be reinstated.

I notice that the Twitter account @wildwomanwritingclub who was live Tweeting details from the courtroom has been suspended by Twitter.

FGS the AWA simply can't stand people talking about them!

Maybe it's time for MN to have a like system, and if you don't like a comment you can downvote/hide it. If you can hide it, then it defeats the need to be reading threads looking for things to report, and if it is hidden by enough active members, then maybe the post gets flagged for review??
I don't need offensive posts hidden, but if a sensitive soul comes on here and can't handle seeing certain views talked about, hide it and fucking MOVE ON with your day.

Yes.
Reinstate TheBewilderness
@MNHQ

She was targeted by vexatious AWA

They will probably wait for the outcome of this case before changing the guidelines as it will change EVERYTHING.

the AWA simply can't stand people talking about them

In the belief system they hold, it is openly expected that anything, however true, which is negative publicity to the politics they believe in, should be suppressed. This is in part why detransitioners are shunned.

In this belief system it is also the case that talking about these matters at all is an act of hate. This is why the whole MN is a transphobic hell thing is spoken: it would not matter how politely it was worded or how strictly the guidelines were maintained, talking about it at all is unacceptable. Since it implies these matters are open to debate. *

*to the best of my observation and belief. It's notable how many threads here contain women trying to work out from the evidence what the situation is, where the problems are, where misunderstandings have arisen, and most of all why on earth they're supposedly doing something wrong.

I’ve missed an acronym, what is AWA?

I notice that the Twitter account @wildwomanwritingclub who was live Tweeting details from the courtroom has been suspended by Twitter.

The account is still there but it's @wwwritingclub

Personally I understand MNHQ's desire to press pause (genuinely pause) if they're worried the thread could get got for something posted. (Posted by anyone with any motivations). Luckily it's been dealt with in a timely manner.

AWA = Anti Woman Activist. Because Trans for these particular people is just the current wedge.

Thanks floralbunting that makes sense

@bd67th
Easy mistake to make, after all he had a few!!
I did a school project about Henry VIII in 1969, it's one thing I still remember even after all these years.

Yes, thanks from me as well Floral, I was wondering exactly the same. I was quite sure that it wouldn't be the American Wrestling Association