Help! Evidence required re correspondence with a Green

[midcenturylegs]

He has stated "I do not agree with restricting toilets and changing rooms to biological females only. I have yet to encounter any tangible evidence of any harm caused by law abiding pre-operational trans women using female bathrooms. Enforcing a biological women only rule would be hugely intrusive for all women, causing real harm."

Can anyone please provide links etc. We are chatting via DM

2. on the question of other protected spaces he has said

"Rape crisis centres maintain the ability to turn away any abusive service users, to protect other service users. This behaviour-based approach effectively protects all service users without excluding people based on their identity – as demonstrated by a comprehensive 2018 report based on testimony of professionals in the sector: https://www.stonewall.org.uk/system/files/stonewallandnfpsynergy_report.pdff_"

I know there's lots of literature and proof at hand but I really want to floor this b4astard right now

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html%3famp

The problem obviously isn't with law abiding pre operative trans people.

It's a problem with none law abiding people who may or may not identify as or be trans. Their gender is not relevent. Their sex is .

Currently there is a simple system that separates female from male. Although it can be abused / ignored it's quite hard because people can accurately sex other people.

The reasons for the separation of the sexes are wide and varied but include respect and dignity for women who have been abused and reducing the incidence of sexual abuse

As to the later. Once you have unisex facilities ( which is what gender divided facilities are ) then there is loads of evidence of increased sexual abuse

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Currently people with the sex women are probably self excluding. That's repeating what happened in the past...which is another reason for the introduction of things like sex separated loos....to ensure all women (sex) could freely and fully participate in society

Someone better will be along but surely he's in the "no true trans" argument? In which case any examples you give he'll dismiss as not really trans so don't count. In which case I'd be going with a) who is actually covered as trans by the stonewall umbrella, ie. fucking everybody, and b) how do the women in the changing room / toilets tell whether it's a 'law abiding pre-op transwoman' or a pervert/predator?

First link I posted demonstrates the increased incidence of assault and voyeurism in mixed-sex facilities. Risks posed near 100% by male people.

Second link demonstrates longer term follow up of male people who have gone through transition, showing that they retain male-level population risks for crime.

My phone is shit op so can't search quick enough but check this site:
transcrimeuk.com/?s=Toilets+

And 3)

It is important to clarify that there is no law on pronouns. I would expect my staff to respect the pronouns of colleagues. Once again, I have yet to encounter any tangible evidence of how respecting someone’s pronoun causes harm to the person doing the respecting. In contrast, harm is caused to someone if their pronouns are not respected.

Could anyone please provide examples of where people have been chastised for not using pronouns etc

About how terrible unisex facilities are for women: www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

God he sounds like a dick. I have just written to my Green MP about this bloody shit show and hope that she does not give me back a load of tosh like this.

A woman's place link about single sex toilets womansplaceuk.org/gender-neutral-toilets-dont-work-for-women-2/

What is comes down to is the fact that transwomen are male, so they can use the facilities for males, otherwise known as the men's toilets, bathrooms etc.

Facilities are separated by sex, not gender, because women are oppressed on the basis of our sex.

Transwomen are not female, so should not be using facilities specifically provided for females. Out ancestors fought for public facilities for the female sex, because the male sex have always had facilities available to them.

Pronouns thing - it's compelled speech. Does he think this is ok in any other area?

Who was the woman forced to call her rapist "she" in court?

Pronoun harm is interesting

However it is interesting in that your correspondent is totally dismissive of the feelings of women

Totally dismissive of how it makes a woman feel that by making a pronoun gender related rather than sex related younare saying to women " accept a gender identity, prferabnly female because that's what everyone else thinks you are" when many women find the whole idea of gender identity as abusive

Pronouns are forcing women to be complicit in their abuse. They are no longer allowed to say I am a woman without it being taken t9 mean I accept the gender identity of woman. Yet how are women meant to talk about the abuse and discr8mination they face every day because, although they can't be called women without i5 being taken to mean more than it is, every fucker can see they are biologically women

Pronouns - Maria McLaglan. In court, after being assaulted.

Pompous so and so.

Male people in female facilities make me feel very anxious indeed. I find that harmful.

Mixed facilities are so disliked by many schoolgirls that they avoid them altogether, and risk urinary infections. That's harmful.

Anyway, why is he saying that we should be allowed to distrust ordinary males yet trust all transitioned males? Cis-phobic chump.

How is harm caused to someone whose pronouns are not respected? How is being truthful harmful?

Midgebabe put it better.

There maybe some useful links in this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

This Never Happens

• Facebook group archiving assaults on women in exactly those circumstances.

m.facebook.com/groups/1722756661380462/

Forcing women to state their pronouns and thus priming them before an activity puts them at a disadvantage when performing in areas traditionally associated with males, due to stereotype threat: web.stanford.edu/group/ipc/pubs/2006Steele.pdf

And he's citing Stonewall as evidence??
Not worth the paper it's written on.

Tell him Stonewall has split over this very issue, indicating they've made some very controversial choices in taking such an extremist, some would deem homophobic, position on trans issues.

You are not chatting with a Green online, you are giving a narc MRA supply. He is getting off on it.

Tell him that if he wants to be inclusive all he needs to do is make mens spaces mixed sex and leave women alone. Then change the subject.