Help! Evidence required re correspondence with a Green

[midcenturylegs]

He has stated "I do not agree with restricting toilets and changing rooms to biological females only. I have yet to encounter any tangible evidence of any harm caused by law abiding pre-operational trans women using female bathrooms. Enforcing a biological women only rule would be hugely intrusive for all women, causing real harm."

Can anyone please provide links etc. We are chatting via DM

Quite alarming how thoroughly he has been brainwashed

As for his comment about rape crisis centres, surely by the time "Karen" has raped someone it's a bit too late to figure out their "behaviour" is a problem. Prevent men from entering women's refuges and the chances of being raped will suddenly decrease. Funny that

Didn’t somone do some work in that stonewall report pointing out that they’d ignored any responses that didn’t fit their narrative? 🤔

'"I do not agree with restricting toilets and changing rooms to biological females only. I have yet to encounter any tangible evidence of any harm caused by law abiding pre-operational trans women using female bathrooms'

Law abiding
Lol
What a non answer

Fairplay for women produced an excellent report highlighting the forgotten voices of service users and frontline staff in women's refuges:

fairplayforwomen.com/our-research/

(There's also a good article on trans prisoner stats on that page)

Stonewall only listened to the high up people in women's charities who know that if they are not 'inclusive' they won't get funded. This is Scotland, I believe the situation is the same elsewhere in the UK:

www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/28877.aspx?SearchType=Advance&ReferenceNumbers=S5W-19971&ResultsPerPage=10

Karen Ingala Smith recently spoke to the Women & Equalities Committee about the many problems with this idea that you can do 'case by case' safeguarding in places like refuges and shelters:

data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/enforcing-the-equality-act-the-law-and-the-role-of-the-equality-and-human-rights-commission/oral/102570.html

See also her WPUK talk in Leeds:

But we must not settle for the bar being set this low. It's not good enough to say that as long as women are not being actually physically attacked then everything's fine.

Prohibited conduct under the equality act includes harassment:

(1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if—

(a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and

(b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of—

(i)violating B's dignity, or

(ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26

Turning women's single sex spaces into mixed sex facilities is unwanted conduct that violates our dignity and creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating and offensive environment for us. Forcing us to validate male people as women through things such as pronouns also fits the equality act definition of harassment on the grounds of sex.

Just noticed you're chatting via DM so you don't have any lurkers. I agree with Inebriati in that case.

I have yet to encounter any tangible evidence of any harm caused by law abiding pre-operational trans women using female bathrooms. Enforcing a biological women only rule would be hugely intrusive for all women, causing real harm.

Would he like to go and talk to the two little girls abused by 'Katie' Dolatowski in a supposedly all-female toilet? After all, Katie was law-abiding right up to the moment he first abused a child.

Incidentally, the little girls were adamant that the person who tried to assault them was 'a long-haired man'. They didn't find Katie's sex difficult to identify, whatever gender Katie was expressing at the time. It's honestly never been very difficult for women to notice that there's a bloke in the loo.

Hee's a Times link for Katie:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-sex-attacker-sent-to-female-hostel-c3vw35c06

I do not agree with restricting toilets and changing rooms to biological females only

Bloody hell, man, are you honestly saying 'Whatever the women think about it, I the man have said that they can't have it'? Share mixed sex toilets all you like with people who actually agreed to it, but not with those who didn't.

God what constituency is this? I was going to vote Green but can’t if it’s that twat.

London.
I collected all this info and have shoved it up his arse. Most pertinent is that he wasn't fucking born when I and fellow academics were co-writing the IPCC https://www.ipcc.ch]{ policy. He probably doesn't even know what that is. Just a chance for him to have a bit of spot light

@ TheMarzipanDildo: I don't know why any feminist would consider voting Green. They were the party that suggested calling women "non-men".

Is he ok with women and girls stumping past him at the urinal or is this a one way deal?

I would be rather blunt.

He is male. He has no authority to give away female spaces. They are not his to give away.

Just as I would have no problem allowing anyone who wished to to live in his house, use his personal things and drive his car. He might object, but in his world view that is irrelevant as he has demonstrated that he doesn't believe that the 'owner' of things has any say.

Thanks for all your quick rapport with providing all that info last night. I've saved it all in a folder now so I don't have to ask again
He wrote back with:

"The guiding approach I have to politics is to look to where misery is in society, and to try and reduce it. The human misery caused by a vulnerable woman being turned away by a Rape Crisis centre, because of the genitals they had when they were born, and the misery caused by you being asked to add your pronoun to a professional biography are of a different order of magnitude.

I can see that we will not agree on this issue, so concur that further correspondence would not be constructive."

I am so bloody furious; after all the evidence (of harassment and violence) I gave him to support my argument he pounced on ^^? So patronising.

After speaking to a Green woman who assured me that she was working with other GC Greens to urge critical thinking within the party, and having almost been swayed - there is NO FUCKING WAY I am voting Green.

I'd rather have Boris Johnson and that says a bloody lot from me.

I don't think I've ever been this angry and I'm worried too that he is going to try to fuck me over!

I would reply with that.

Yes, you're right, further correspondence would be useless. However, I would like you to know that our exchange has convinced me to vote Conservative. I will also be forwarding your dismissive, misogynistic writing to friends and family who I sure will be put off voting for you as well. I have already shared your responses on Mumsnet, which, with an audience of (is it 14 million unique users?) may well have done your party some damage.

Go well,

Mid.

I hate the arrogant assumption from both the Greens and Lib Dems that they don't need our votes. I want to rub it in their faces that this is causing them to hemorrhage the centre left voters that they are trying to mop up from labour.

There’s this critique of Stonewall’s report from FOVAS fovas.wordpress.com/response-to-stonewall-2/

Oh, sorry I’ve just seen you say he’s not wanting to respond. Can you name names? There are quite a lot of gender critical men and women within the Green Party who are also very frustrated at having to deal with this!

Im going to not contact him again, but I'll forward this conversation to my female GP ally with your excellent response @YourOpinionIsNoted :-)

Ugh horrible man.

Why are there so many misogynistic men in left wing/liberal/progressive political parties?? They just dismiss women, and their experiences - but of course have jumped on the trans rights stuff right away - great excuse to belittle women. Anyone who says transwomen are women are belittling the female sex, and the centuries of oppression we've faced and fought against.

I sometimes do think women would be better off with Boris Johnson.

Yes, a horrible man.

I'm not going to name him publicly as it was a private conversation and I am counting on him, as a politician, to respect those same boundaries (I hope someone from his Party is reading this), I am not vindictive enough to wish his career over.

If a senior policy making political candidate can't do the research to back up his or her statements ("to my knowledge" etc) then I actually can't think how they can be trusted to deal with the very scientific issues they're proposing to uphold.

Correction - As a wannabe politician.

Send him the photos of that ‘vulnerable’ woman prancing round the Canadian shelter with her ‘morning wood’ and ask about the human misery that situation is causing the other women in the shelter.

On a slightly separate note, DS is minded to vote Green as a protest vote unless I can point him to the Green view of women as “non men”. I’m sure it’s on here somewhere but can anyone kindly give me chapter and verse plus any other useful evidence.

Here the Independent articles, DefinitelyRandom They're pretty damning.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-wont-be-referred-to-as-non-male-by-the-green-party-women-have-suffered-prejudice-because-of-their-a6967926.html

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/feminists-mock-green-party-young-womens-invite-to-non-men-a6987061.html

The annoying thing is, I wold LOVE to vote Green. I'm just so annoyed they've gone all stupid on gender identity, rather than just concentrating on climate issues.