Maya Forstater court case

[Bardonnay]

Sorry to link to the DM but they've covered Maya Forstater's upcoming court case here:
https://mol.im/a/7683207.

Maya's account of events is here and her post links to updates about the case: https://medium.com/@MForstater/i-lost-my-job-for-speaking-up-about-womens-rights-2af2186ae84

It could be more obvious that Trans Inc has shifted from being a movement about people with gender dysphoria to a movement of self absorbed narcissists.

Anya: you seek to control how people refer to you. You want Maya to use ‘male’ to refer to gender

Theory of mind is coming into this again, it's startling how often it comes up. People's intentions framed as irrelevant, people's independence of thought or even independent existence separate to the perceiver is not recognised: everything is to do with the perceiver and people are bad if they stimulate negative emotions.

Ideas like 'cis scum' said to women merely for existing start to make more sense in that light. The judge is going to need to be a psychiatrist to really get through this maze.

Anya: you seek to control how people refer to you. You want Maya to use ‘male’ to refer to gender

Great question

Anya: Maya does not identify as cis. Many women do not identify as cis and do not believe in gender identify. Your belief is that everyone has a gender identity.
Clair: yes everyone has a gender identity. People respect each other’s identities. If they don’t it’s an affront, more likely to happen to trans people.

🤯

Unfortunately I need to leave now, but be assured there are people taking notes. Hopefully those notes will be tweeted later!

Anya: Maya does not identify as cis. Many women do not identify as cis and do not believe in gender identify. Your belief is that everyone has a gender identity.

Why should that belief trump Maya’s belief? This is absolutely fascinating to read. Great reporting Pygmy!

Maya’s intention irrelevant, there is still an impact on me, whether or not she intended it as bullying

Ah the self-absorbed TRA movement in a nutshell.
The polar opposite of people like Kristina Harrison.

Thanks pygmy for your valuable posts.

People respect each other’s identities.

Nice demonstration there that these ideas are often not reciprocal, that there are the servers and the served, the people and the non people, and different standards are held of what each can expect.

As someone rewrote above, this is Inherit the Wind for the modern day.

Thanks Pygmy you and Wildwoman are doing an amazing job of communicating this case.

thanks Pygmy, this was fascinating

I'm sort of imagining Anya holding a net and a trident at this point

Clair: yes everyone has a gender identity. People respect each other’s identities. If they don’t it’s an affront, more likely to happen to trans people.

But Clair doesn't respect other people's right not to have a gender identity.

Clair doesn't appear to be very tolerant of other people's right not to follow Clair's chosen religion.

I'm sort of imagining Anya holding a net and a trident at this point

What a great image! Pygmy, superb job, it really is fascinating. It will be interesting to see how much of this is in the media and which key parts are omitted

This is amazing stuff. Thank you Pygmy.

Anya is on FIRE

Nice demonstration there that these ideas are often not reciprocal, that there are the servers and the served

Well said. The reciprocity is in very short supply.

Thank you Pygmy.

Anya: where in leaflets is the threat of violence to trans people?
Clair: reference to women’s rights and safety.

Ah. This street violence group.

Street literal violence group. Leafleting about women's rights and safety.

Maya’s intention irrelevant, there is still an impact on me

Michelleoftheresistance

Theory of mind is coming into this again, it's startling how often it comes up. People's intentions framed as irrelevant, people's independence of thought or even independent existence separate to the perceiver is not recognised: everything is to do with the perceiver and people are bad if they stimulate negative emotions.

This is so true. But you will end up stabbing each other to death. If everything is only in the eye of the beholder, and that they can control everybody on that basis, we all end up annihilated.

I honestly don't understand how people can hold this point of view, and live in the real world at the same time.

It sounds like some kind of mind experiment that would fail instantly the moment you walked out the front door.

So this self obsessed prat is who Jolyon makes an arse of himself over?

Yes, thank you PygmyHippoBob. Very grateful.

I am gobsmacked. Completely gobsmacked. I don't even know what to say.

(Other than Anya is wonderful and I cannot believe that Maya had to work with such absolute fucking idiots)

Anya: where in leaflets is the threat of violence to trans people?
Clair: reference to women’s rights and safety.

I mean, we've said it often enough. But to have it confirmed, in court, in public, out loud, is still rather shocking.

Women's rights are transphobic.

I honestly don't understand how people can hold this point of view, and live in the real world at the same time.

They can't can they, we end up with our current situation.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

Probably fits a few more rules too.