Maya Forstater court case

[Bardonnay]

Sorry to link to the DM but they've covered Maya Forstater's upcoming court case here:
https://mol.im/a/7683207.

Maya's account of events is here and her post links to updates about the case: https://medium.com/@MForstater/i-lost-my-job-for-speaking-up-about-womens-rights-2af2186ae84

This is embarrassing isn't it. I work in HR and trust me, I would not make a tit of myself in a tribunal like this for any employer!

I am so glad this is happening...

CC - a man’s feeling he’s a woman equally has no basis in material reality

RW - no

CC - would CGD hire a secretary who couldn’t type but identified as a typist?

RW - [swerves question]

CC -

What a world..

Oh funny, the HR guy has now said he believes Rachel Dolzeal to be black
Something tells me he’s going to be made to regret that.

Gosh it's so fascinating (and such a relief) to see all the twitter tropes and fallacies getting an airing in a setting where it's clear they are profoundly absurd.

How long before we get to clownfish?

It turns out that it's really only the characteristics recorded in the Equalities Act that you can identify into (yanno characteristics that can result in actual oppression)

so you can say you have the characteristic while not having it, so not experiencing any of the oppression. Super!

It’s highly offensive to be arbiter of another persons reality

And that is what a whole generation of children are being taught. Reality is an individual thing.

😯

But but but

our organisations position is that it’s highly offensive to be arbiter of another persons reality, and MF calling dysphoric individual a man is offensive

my mouth is hanging open here

Non believers! your ability to recognise and talk about reality is highly offensive!

So we just have to accept other people’s reallty

Cripes

I'm agog. A green one, today. Tomorrow I might be a blue gog.

The above makes just as much sense as what the HR director has said this morning in evidence.

yeah, it;s scary littl

MF should be able to express in a way which doesn’t call into question a trans persons entire reality

but but but. what if their reality doesn't match actual reality?? if a person's life can be ruined by people demonstrating an understanding of reality, surely they need help, not reinforcement of that frailty?

So if I said I was head of that HR department would they just accept my reality

The fuckwit is saying Maya should be able to articulate her views in a way that doesn't call into question a trans person's entire reality but he can't articulate what that would look like. Obviously there couldn't possibly be a reason for that...

It’s highly offensive to be arbiter of another persons reality

Wow. Just wow!

And what if that person s reality damages other people’s reality.

Where does this end

Now I am feeling even more sorry for that Councel

Mind boggling. Hopefully there will be plenty of backlash on the Dolezal point. It’s fucking offensive if nothing else.

I get what he is saying to a point from an HR admin perspective, ethnicity is not legally certified in any way so it is default self identified. So as an employer if, someone ticks a box then who will doubt it, it has little material reality after being ticked other than a systems record and no one checks data, there is no monitoring really, it just gets added up, emailed to the board who say "oh dear we must do something about this", and then forgotten about. So if someone is pretending he won't know anything about it. He's just talking theoretically.

It's great that he has no idea who Dolzeal is because he is therefore quite happily pontificating about how virtuous self identification ALWAYS is without knowing he's missed a fairly big shit show.

Oh this is priceless, he has properly stepped in the big hole that Maya and Anya dug for him.

Just loving this witness. I can feel mass peaking sweeping the nation! So if I am totally pissed and stopped by police doe drink driving, I'll just say that I identify as sober shall I or that today I identify as the Queen and will you please all curtsey to me. That's my reality and don't you dare deny it.

I can't get a song out of my head - it used to be played on family favourites all the time.... "3 wheels on my wagon, and I'm still rolling along...." The wheels are coming off CGD's wagon one by one it seems.

So it's okay for a trans person to bring Maya's reality into question but not the other way around?

Judge seems on board

it's pure fucking post modernism. this idea that reality is subjective

really, fuck off with that shit

it's easy to believe that when you live a privileged life. You can believe that your reality is one you'd chose

but it implies that people living really fucking shitty lives, syrian refugees who have watched their child's body wash up on a Greek beach, victims of child sexual exploitation, political prisoners have also chosen their realities

why didn't they just define their own reality better?

I can't tell you how fucking angry this bullshit makes me

I do think the HR director should have been able to provide a template for what should have been said though. He wriggled out of that pretty fast.

There's no way he has no idea who Rachel Dolezal is. If he said that he's full of shit.

How far can this go?

A long time ago I was a school governor. At a training event another governor regaled us with a story of how a new headteacher had been appointed at their school. There were some concerns about the head's performance and a request was made for the Head to produce degree certificates to back up what had been said in the application. There was an unaccountable delay and one day the Chair insisted on going into the Head's office to talk matters over. The Head was discovered in her office in the process of forging a set of certificates. Sacked on the spot for gross misconduct.

She missed her time. Nowadays she would just have to explain that she identified as having all the qualifications she claimed. Asking for material evidence would be a hate crime.