Help me understand...”Modest Fashion”

[OhDear2200]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-50067975

There is something that bugs me about this and I need the MN feminists to help me out (be gentle it’s my first post in this area though a regular reader).

Sooo what is it that bugs me?

Why do we need commentary on women (yep no mention of men) and what we wear? Or am I over reacting is it just a conversation about fashion?

But if a man wore baggy trousers it’s not called modest is it??! It’s called wearing baggy trousers. Why is a woman modest or not modest.

Help me either get a grip or understand this better???

Trewser

I know exactly what kate Middleton would look like naked a bicycle. I know in the same way i know what kim k would look like

Here is your post.

MIdgebabe
Thin as a bicycle is new to me, but instantly reminded me of the phrase "I'd like to ride her' which may be why some people find it a bit off?

I can't find any other use of "thin as a bicycle" apart from Trews. The expression is "thin as a rake".

I agree with what you say. Calling a woman a "bike" or a "bicycle" is really offensive.

It was in reply to another poster saying she knew wnat KK would look like as she wore such revealing clothes. I picked the polar opposite to KK to make the point that of course clothes don't completley hide body shape.

Can't believe I'm having to explain this, although you've been so aggressive and strange throughout this thread I'm not surprised that you can't follow arguments correctly.

I agree calling women a "bike" is offensive. But that's not what I said, as well you know.

Trewser

I agree calling women a "bike" is offensive. But that's not what I said, as well you know

I didn't say you did "as well you know"- So don't bother with a straw man there. The creepy part is you thinking about KM and KK naked on a thread about modest clothing.

Zut alors.
So I say that the word modiste sounds similar to modeste in French but would be a much better name for a fashion trend and someone misreads that, as
^The French for modest is modeste, which has absolutely zero connection with modiste, a completely different word.

Oui. I know my own language. I did not say they were the same word merely that they sound similar, as in when spoken.

Some women prefer 'modest' fashion because their body has an irregular shape that is uncomfortable in close fitting outfits. My teen with scoliosis really prefers loose tops and has a naturally modest (one might say prudish, even) dislike of human skin on show. I think you are right to have a critical stance of the use and positioning of the term MODEST as it is still usually part of a typically sexist dichotomy. But from where can we go? Language has history but need we bound by it?
If its OK to be sex positive it should be OK to be immodest, revealing, body proud, slutty even. I was a 90s "ladette" and I enjoyed a wild few years. But if we are respectful of peoples choices it should also OK to "self identify" as a modest person, especially young or religious girls who are uninterested in exploring their sexuality through fashion.

nothing remotely feminist in someone waxing lyrical about wearing lovely feminine clothes that meet with the approval of men who wish to control women’s sexuality.

This applies to hyper-sexualised clothing as well. They meet the approval of men as being sexy clothes.

Why do so many interesting threads in this section get derailed by ridiculous spats between idiotic posters? So frustrating.

I don’t agree with the whole concept of sex positivity, but sex positive people are not claiming to be immodest. That would be completely contradictory.

I find the term 'modest fashion' as offensive as I would find New Look labelling its more revealing dresses 'tarty fashion' or 'slaggy fashion'. It sexualises women's clothes and by association their bodies in a sexist and judgemental way.

Just call them 'clothes' and trust women to choose the styles they want without a great big judgemental arrow pointing them to certain styles.

Emperor, I agree. I don’t think it is wise to claim that dressing modest is antifeminist any more than to claim that slut walk outfits are antifeminist.
Feminism is the right for all women to choose to wear as much or as little clothing as they want to. There should be no limit....no too little or too much.

It’s not the clothes that are anti feminist. It’s the concept of “modest dress” as a desirable category of
clothing for women that is anti feminist.

I know what you are trying to say @TheNavigator but its a language problem isn't it because modest/immodest are so loaded with negative connotations, judgement. What is a better dichotomy?
Body conscious/Body concealing
Clingy/Covering
Show skin/Hide skin

?????? The other alternative is to reclaim words like slutty or modest and use them without pejorative meaning. There's Thicc now. Shall we also have Pslutt/PSchy.

What's wrong with looking at this from both sides, listening to other points of view? It doesn't seem very feminist to tell other women they shouldn't be on the feminist board. Plan hasn't said anything wrong, she's just sharing her views on this subject which I've found interesting to read.

Thank you Ceridwen. It was very nice of you to comment so. I have found your comments pleasant to read also. I like diversity in viewpoints.

Yes Bertrand, but if the label “modest” is removed or reclaimed, then it is no longer antifeminist any more. And there is nothing wrong with a style being desirable to women. That is feminist. It’s dressing according to men’s desires that is antifeminist and that can be said of all or any item of clothing regardless of its fashion label.

while I agree modest has some bad connotations
sensible or practical clothing one of the other suggestions is not great either as it suggests granny style, frumpy unfashionable looks awful but functions the sort of outfit for gardening or walking a dog or a work uniform but certainly not fashionable trendy

someone might look for a modest dress to wear to a wedding but you would not expect anything suitable for a wedding to come up in a search for "sensible clothing for women"
what word(s) would you actually use to describe clothing that is fashionable but covers most of your body and is not skin tight and doesn't have a different set of negative things associated with it?

The whole point of the word modest is that it is a moral judgement.

It is like asking for words like good or virtuous or successful or better to be used without involving a sense of judgement.

You are right, sensible or practical do not conjure up the right kind of thing at all.

What's wrong with looking at this from both sides,
Seriously? You think the misogynist pro oppression of women side and the Feminist opposition to oppressing women deserve equal time on the Feminist board? Criminy!

I had another thought. Maybe “fusion” style? As it is a global fusion of many civilisations and time periods in terms of cut, embellishment and style.

Creep- What misogynist pro oppression side? You are joking I hope.

Creepster Agreed. The appeals to our female socialisation on this thread to enforce tolerance of female oppression isn't pleasant.