Lib Dems actively deterring GC women

[DontBuyANewMumCashmere]

Today I emailed the Lib Dems expressing an interest in joining their party.

I stated no one should receive discrimination or abuse for their transgender status but explained that I am GC and I asked if there was room for GC women in the party.

I received the following response:
Thank you for getting in touch. Whilst we appreciate your interest in joining, you should be aware that the Liberal Democrats are a trans inclusive party, and we have made it clear that we fully behind trans communities. As liberals we champion everyone’s right to live the life they want. By the sounds of your email it appears that your values are not aligned with ours so we are probably not the right the party for you.

I am flabbergasted. I didn't expect that I would have to believe that humans can change biological sex in order to be a member of the Lib Dems.

I am so disappointed. I was going to vote for them in the GE (passionate Remainer) but I cannot if this is their response.

There is no one to vote for. I am lost.

Don't vote then. But please don't suggest you're doing something profound by 'spoiling your ballot'.

I'll always vote for who I personally consider to be the least bad option.

You don't vote for Hillary, you get a Trump.

You didn't vote for Hitler's opposition, you got a Hitler.

That's the political system we live in. Meanwhile, we campaign, we discuss, we provide evidence, we carry on fighting.

If you are going to spoil your ballot, state the reason, it will be noted.

I think it's really difficult to know what to do. It is regularly argued that because the Labour Party policy was pro Brexit in 2017, everyone who voted Labour was endorsing Brexit. However, realistically spoiled Ballot Papers wouldn't have been understood as an endorsement for Remain. The consequence would just have been a Conservative majority.

That's why you'd write REMAIN on it.

Okay I've got a deeply stupid question so please be gentle...

I vote by post and always check, check and check again to make sure I've put the correct envelope within the correct envelope because of course it's confidential. If and when I get canvassers knocking on the door and we have a chat, surely I shouldn't tell them who I'm voting for? Obv when they come out with some bollocks stance on women's rights I can tell them they're definitely not getting my vote. But not the other way round.

And then ... so I can sound articulate can someone suggest the best way to ask this question? I have a habit to use 1000 words when 10 would suffice (some of you have noticed, I'm sure ) so I want to get straight to the jugular without scaring them away immediately.

Don't vote then. But please don't suggest you're doing something profound by 'spoiling your ballot'

Spoiling the ballot is not the same as just 'not bothering' to vote. Many people, myself included, take the vote very seriously - and would never dream of 'not voting'.

We all decide on what is meaningful for ourselves, not other people. You can vote for candidates and practices you disagree with if you want. But I'm not quite sure what you see as being so meaningful about that? You are simply condoning that with which you have profound disagreement. Or porhaps issues don't really move you that much?

The Lib Dems are the worst in many respects. They actively say not to vote for them if you are GC. The party excuses all manner of injustice in the name of 'liberalism'. I've had quite a bot of contact with local Lib Dems where I live - and they simoply refuse to take the issue of women's rights, services, spaces and trans children seriously. They just want to be 'nice'.

As it happens I live in an area which will return a Labour MP - and the tories have not a chance in hell. I'd like to vote for my Labour candidate - but the problem is that momentum/Labour has fallen down the trans rabbit hole.....and on top of that there has been behaviour in local constituency parties with which I have a profound problem with - and simply cannot condone.

I live in a Tory safe seat and the tactical voting site advises me to vote Labour. Fat chance.
As a Remainer, I wanted to vote Lib Dem, but that's out of the question now.
As an individual, my Tory MP is OK in many respects, and has assured me that he is GC.
Feeling politically homeless and helpless....😕

The last time I ballot spoiled (safe labour seat in the locals) I wrote something like ‘women’s rights are for female people’ although I forget the exact phrasing. I had to turn the ballot paper sideways to create enough blank space for a short sentence.

I’ve attended both GE and LE counts in the past and spoiled ballots (along with anything outside of the single cross criteria, such as 3 crosses and a tick) have to be viewed by all the candidates and their electoral agents and agreed as invalid. No one actually records what spoiled ballots say, but they do get read.

If and when I get canvassers knocking on the door and we have a chat, surely I shouldn't tell them who I'm voting for?

You can if you want to - it's a secret ballot in the sense that you can keep it secret if you wish and nobody can force you to say how you vote. But you can tell them if you want.

Ahhh thanks Freezer

I live in a Tory safe seat and the tactical voting site advises me to vote Labour. Fat chance

Why not? Who is your Labour candidate. Are they a young Momentum type? Have you any idea of their particular stance on issues that matter to you?

If and when I get canvassers knocking on the door and we have a chat, surely I shouldn't tell them who I'm voting for? Obv when they come out with some bollocks stance on women's rights I can tell them they're definitely not getting my vote. But not the other way round.

This is an interesting view - I think a lot of families and communities used to have a lot of secrecy around the vote, but its by no means required or compulsory, though it may be sensible. ;) If you DID tell them who you're voting for, you might get a knock later in the day to remind you to vote.

No one actually records what spoiled ballots say, but they do get read

That is good to know.

Justhadathought - completely agree with you. I have always made an effort to vote, mindful of the sacrifices made by so many to allow me this privilege.

But just what am I supposed to do when faced with the cruelty, stupidity and ineptitude of our main parties?

I am going to turn up, to show i was bothered. And spoil my ballot paper. I don't see what other rational response there is.

"As liberals we believe everyone should believe the same anti-scientific gibberish. Or else".

Let's keep this thread going til the GE. Potential voters deserve to know. Glad to hear they don't want my vote, personally, as they wouldn't have got it anyway.

Agree @spero. At times like this the previously irrational act of spoiling a ballot paper becomes the only rational option.

"Biological women matter"

would fit nicely

Helmet my lack of knowledge demonstrates how easy it is to be conditioned to what is a "fact"!

Thanks 🙏

That's not the emoji I intended!

I’m glad you’ve contacted the main membership address. I’d like to know if it official policy to prevent gender critical women from joining. Please let us know what response you get.

Well, Lynne Featherstone's pretty clear on not wanting our votes. www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/05/feminists-not-welcome-lib-dems-unless-support-gender-neutral/

Captains inner 8 year old is tempted by "Women don't have penises" (sp?! Never had to write the plural). Complete with pictures, a la the doodles on bank notes from a while back.

tellme As above, it's completely up to you - as it should be - whether or not you want to tell canvassers of your voting intentions.

I say that as someone who's canvassed in the past and - I hope - was never pushy

I'd suggest just saying you've not made up your mind but are very concerned about women's issues/rights - girls being disadvantaged in sports, for example, or the importance of women HCPs for women survivors and so on, and ask what their policies are.

Make sure you're doodling is better than mine or it'll end up looking more like and wine glass or a hammer.

I am going to turn up, to show i was bothered. And spoil my ballot paper. I don't see what other rational response there is

Definitely!

For me the tide has turned, in quite dramatic ways, in recent years, and the times of being prepared to vote for 'the least worst candidate' have now passed for me. Old party political loyalties and fixed ideological positions are shifting very quickly.

If I had a local candidate who I respected and held in high regard, and whose position on the most important issues was in alignment with my own, then I'd vote for them. Usually these days it tends to be the iconoclasts, lone wolves and independent types that have always stood up for what they believe in, that appeal - but there are not too many about.

Following with interest.

I have lived in my home for over four years and have never once had a anyone knock on my door from a political party.
Is it something that happens in areas with less safe seats?