It’s official; Marks and Spencer have fallen, the sequel.......

[MrsSnippyPants]

First thread getting full and and I continue to be interested in responses received to people’s emails and store visits.

Or maybe get them to ask their mums what they think of the idea. If any of them were my DS I’d be giving them the full explanation.

I’ve emailed Lauren back asking for a reply from someone senior and who is involved in policy making.

My Mum has died, but when she was elderly and frail I bought all her things from M&S. I would do one huge shop every season, as she got smaller and thinner, even more frequently when she was in a care home, as her things were quickly worn out or ruined by the mixed washes and tumble driers, and I wanted her to look nice and to be cared for.
I can’t imagine having to take her into a changing room where men were also allowed. She would have been terribly upset.

My mum would have had a fit - and she had a walking stick (which was used more for waving at miscreants and poking people who annoyed her - and once for throwing at the tv when a politician she didn’t approve of came on).

This has been going on at our M&S for some years, don't know exactly how long as it was brought in by stealth like everything. Changing rooms have been defacto unisex, they don't even have to say 'trans' anymore. M&S and several others forget that 'inclusive' is a balancing act not pandering to one lobby group over its female customers. I've complained and been fobbed off, will complain again.

35SirVixofVixHall
That's terrible, sorry you went through that.

Has anyone approached USDAW or GMB or UNITE to ask what their policies are re. vulnerable female shop staff faced with pervert men?

I am concerned for the shop staff, what would happen if they refused to measure a male for a bra for instance ? Would they be sacked ?

I am going to print out a fact sheet setting out M&S’s policy on encouraging men (presenting as women or not, it makes absolutely no difference) to frequent women’s fitting rooms and bra fitting services, and what exactly this means in concert, practical terms, plus the overriding issue of segregation by sex for actual, important reasons of safeguarding and protection, and I shall be going in weekly to leave them in each of the fitting rooms. And on the toilet cubicle doors.

My plan (because I'm still waging war on my gym over this issue) is to sellotape a leaflet to the back of each cubicle door in the women's changing room and in the toilets, as well as dropping leaflets into each locker in the women's changing room.

(In my opinion, of course. I don’t speak for anyone else. But it’s clear that in general agencies that have one particular point of perspective largely lobby with that specific agenda in mind).

They think it's women's job to cater to men's sexual fetishes. The Marks and Spencers sales assistants are paid aren't they?

There are stores for that!

I think it would also be good to ask M&S — and any company removing protections for girls and women — who their liability insurers are, what limits of liability they are insured for, and whether or not they have advised their insurers that they are reducing harm prevention measures for girls and women on their premises.

You could also state that you are notifying them that they have created increased risk for girls and women, and that if you yourself or your daughter experiences harm due to that increased risk on their premises, the fact that they were aware of the risk and did not strive to mitigate it would be factored into your claim for damages.

SirVix I am concerned about shop staff too. How are they expected to deal with the situations which may arise?

But they are not offering customers a choice they feel comfortable in. Women are not being offered a choice the6 feel comfortable in. If fully lockable is perfectly safe, there is no reason for anyone not to use their sex appropriate facility. That reply is between nonsense and straight lie.

bicker, that is absolutely an angle I will be pursuing in my next email. They will most likely be insured through the Lloyd's of London insurance syndicates, so they should have been notifying a lot of individual insurers that they have altered the protections in place for women and children in their stores.

Thanks for the link to the template on WPUK. I've just sent off my email.

I used to work at M&S over 20 years ago and I would not have had the confidence to deal with any autogynophiles that were using the womens' changing rooms to get their jollies. Looking back, I realise that I dealt with a lot of them when I worked on the lingerie department. All those men that enjoyed quizzing me on what underwear to buy their 'girlfriend.' I was way too naive to realise what was going on.

twitter.com/ReSistersU/status/1191031466202980352?s=20

I think it would also be good to ask M&S — and any company removing protections for girls and women — who their liability insurers are, what limits of liability they are insured for, and whether or not they have advised their insurers that they are reducing harm prevention measures for girls and women on their premises.

You could also state that you are notifying them that they have created increased risk for girls and women, and that if you yourself or your daughter experiences harm due to that increased risk on their premises, the fact that they were aware of the risk and did not strive to mitigate it would be factored into your claim for damages.

I will be avoiding buying anything from M&S now.

I’m thinking about the ‘returns’ now and the items tried on and put back on the rail. No thanks M&S!

Back in the day I worked for Evans as a Saturday girl when I was at school. 16/17?
I’m 48 now and can still remember the men who came in and got me to measure them up for bras in the changing rooms.
At the time, I just thought they were a bit odd. They would always ask if the changing rooms were empty, and I assumed this was because they had a modicum of compassion for any women who were using them. Once any women were out, I would usher them in and then close the changing room until they were done. (I’d measure them, get them a few to try and check if they needed anything else)
As a teenager, I didn’t feel at all threatened by this. As a 48 year old woman with two teenage daughters, I would immediately assume they were getting jollies out of being alone with a teenage shop assistant and getting her to touch them.
Funny what being aware of #girlslikeus will teach you.

It sounds like their loos remain designated by sex, whilst their changing rooms are designated by feelings. They have a legal requirement to provide toilets in stores where there are cafes and they also have to abide by legal regulations on division by sex, so they won't be able to turn them unisex just because they fancy it.

You'd be wrong to assume that. I posted on the original thread that I complained last week to the manager in our nearest M & S Simply Food that because they're removed the separate toilets for men and women and replaced them with two individual cubicles with the sign for both men and women on, the toilets are absolutely filthy (seat covered in piss, floor covered in piss, etc - an absolute health hazard, in a food store which also has a cafe).

Strangely and interestingly, there are also two disabled cubicles - marked separately for men and for women (didn't look in there to see whether they were different inside).