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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New research reveals facial recognition softwear misgenders transgender and nb people

57 replies

ludog · 01/11/2019 09:39

Well colour me surprised! www.forbes.com/sites/jessedamiani/2019/10/29/new-research-reveals-facial-recognition-software-misclassifies-transgender-non-binary-people/

OP posts:
Whatsnewpussyhat · 01/11/2019 10:41

The programme correctly identifies a person's sex. Like most of us do with our own eyes.

I don't see the issue. Like pp said, how can you make it identify a feeling that is purely subjective and changeable. It would make it pointless.

ffswhatnext · 01/11/2019 10:51

If tech is terf then all the moaners need to step back from the tech surely and go and create their own stuff.

Will be interesting to see if any of the main media outlets give this any mention. That would wake up loads of people.

ffswhatnext · 01/11/2019 10:53

And what about us that id at times as a cat or a table? How will the software deal with that, other than maybe breaking down from confusion

ChattyLion · 01/11/2019 10:57

Reality is a T*RF.

We have had reality for so very many millennia that it is actually hardwired into our human brains now to instinctively be able to tell men and women apart. Amazing, isn’t that. Tiny little children can do it.
Are they T*RFs too?

Ereshkigal · 01/11/2019 10:57

I'm not sure I'm a fan of facial recognition tech in general, I can see it has its uses but a lot of downsides so not too bothered if wokeness kills it.

merrymouse · 01/11/2019 11:01

More troublingly, those who identified as agender, genderqueer or non-binary, were misclassified 100 percent of the time because these gender identities have not been built into the algorithms.

This is terrifying. What kind of person thinks that facial recognition software would or should ever be used to assume identity? What next - an algorithm that uses the length of your nose to predict political affilation?

ErrolTheDragon · 01/11/2019 11:11

I don't see how an AI could ever do more than classify by sex, with a second layer for gender nonconformity - at the more obvious ends guess at trans, but in between there simply isn't any physical distinction between 'agender, genderqueer or non-binary' - or people who don't give a stuff about gender and don't conform to stereotypes.

It's a complete and utter nonsense.

geojellyfish · 01/11/2019 13:56

'Deeply problematic' for who? Utter lunacy to try to get AI to categorise people by gender identity.

ffswhatnext · 01/11/2019 15:08

Oh but hang on, how comes a bit of tech is allowed to assume gender (if it worked), but people aren't?
What next, complaints because a chromosome test shows the correct xy or whatever?
It's like saying I'm blood type B, but I identify as A+. And as we know some blood groups cannot accept certain blood (I forget which and too lazy to search).
Call yourself what you want, but you have to face the reality that sometimes you have to suck it up, and some things will be based on your sex, biology or whatever. There's no getting away from it.

Even if say face recognition was done to go from head to waist, it still wouldn't work. Even putting aside for one minute that not all females have visible breasts, how would it separate women boobs from manboobs 🤣 Even facial hair isn't going to determine. Although I suppose it opens up that hated question - what physical features define a man/woman. Because realistically until this can be done, sex will always be assumed by the tech. I don't know about others, but I don't what tech that can think independently.

At some point in our lives, we have all been called the wrong sex because an assumption has been made. Adults deal with it and move on, a child might take offence for a few moments, and it's forgotten.

BeMoreMagdalen · 01/11/2019 15:16

Maybe someone should invent facial recognition tech with a special 'aura reading' plug in, perhaps a useful star sign indicator too?

Ereshkigal · 01/11/2019 15:20

What next, complaints because a chromosome test shows the correct xy or whatever?

There have already been people throwing their toys out of the prom because Ancestry DNA neglected to perceive their internal gender identity and had them down as "male".

Ereshkigal · 01/11/2019 15:21

Throwing their toys out of the pram rather than the prom Grin

nocluewhattodoo · 01/11/2019 15:25

Surely the tech can be programmed to recognise blue hair as a trait of the non-binary gender queer folk, so as not to misgender them Grin

lazylinguist · 01/11/2019 15:26

Wtf? So it is somehow a surprise that software designed to categorise people by what they look like is unable to guess what gender they feel like just by looking at them?

Surely one of the main points of TRAs is that you can identify as whatever you like, regardless of your physical body or looks, so TRAs wouldn't actually think facial recognition software should be able to do this anyway?

ffswhatnext · 01/11/2019 16:04

blue hair, really? What about the old ladies with the blue rinse?
Or those like me that randomly add coloured streaks?

It’s just like attention seeking. Maybe that’s the way publicly ignore them like we would a toddler, and behind the scenes ensuring legalities aren’t eroded.

TemporaryPermanent · 01/11/2019 16:50

Wasnt there some story about software that could identify depressed people? I think it was based on texts, but actually I can imagine facial recognition software that could do that with some success. I can also imagine software that could be programmed to identify specific feminine or masculine gestures as understood in particular cultures.

Thing is though, why would you want to?

CranberriesChoccy · 01/11/2019 17:04

With all these identities, if a non binary or trans person went missing or was wanted by the police, what word(s) would be used in a bulletin/announcement? Are the police bound to the wokeness?

ErrolTheDragon · 01/11/2019 17:12

Cranberries - well, there were quite a few misleading reports when 'Lisa Hauxwell' went on the run.

transcrimeuk.com/2017/10/31/lisa-hauxwell/

CranberriesChoccy · 01/11/2019 17:20

@ErrolTheDragon

What a mess. Who in their right mind would consider that person to be a female sex offender. For the love of Mike.

CharlieParley · 01/11/2019 17:22

*Tiny little children can do it.
Are they TRFs too?

According to some they are indeed. Here's an example:

Why I don't like children

CranberriesChoccy · 01/11/2019 17:25

Children aren't rude, but they are usually honest.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 01/11/2019 17:26

Are the police bound to the wokeness?

The police once, relative recently, released a 'have you seen this missing women' picture of a woman in a full burka. I have absolutely no idea what they expected the public to do about that one. Frankly they seem to have lost the plot entirely.

NeurotrashWarrior · 01/11/2019 18:04

More troublingly, those who identified as <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sex-sexuality-and-romance/201807/guide-genderqueer-non-binary-and-genderfluid-identity" target="_blank">agender, genderqueer or non-binaryy*y, were misclassified 100 percent of the time because these gender identities have not been built into the algorithms.

And if they do, it'll be terribly sexist.

hipsterfun · 01/11/2019 22:29

So perhaps if these children directly challenged me with “the question” and I responded with “I’m a girl” they would just accept it at face value.

I don’t know about anyone else’s small DS, but mine would be having none of it.

PickledGulag · 01/11/2019 22:53

Yeah what is the point of clever facial sex-linked fact based recognition tech to catch criminals if the police are asking the machine to search for a criminal who has been recorded as whatever they self identified as during previous arrests? Will it work because criminals never lie? Or no concern because this never happens? If only there was a clever work around.

When I am arrested because the tech is searching for a woman with my face I will clearly state my manliness and be freed since questioning my manliness would be unkind and transphobic.

What about the dragon who used to be a man? Does the modern age crime fighting technology recognise dragons? Could it find a dragon in a crowd in time to help MI5 save the world movie style? So many troubling questions.