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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

1000 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 31/10/2019 13:30

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
MrGsFancyNewVagina · 02/11/2019 02:10

Tbh I don’t spend a lot in M&S. possibly just @ £1000 a year, between food and PJs/robes/slippers for my adult kids. My middle boy loved the big fluffy robe with the hood, last year. It’s not much, but I won’t be spending it there this Christmas.

Can anyone recommend someone that dies nice PJs, etc from a company that respects women’s right to privacy, please?

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 02/11/2019 02:12

On the plus side, thank goodness they let us know they were prioritising men, before we started our Xmas shopping! Grin

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/11/2019 02:31

My stepmother buys a ton of food from M&S, especially at Xmas. This may be the nudge she needs to switch to a different company.

sashh · 02/11/2019 05:31

I got another reply

Thank you for taking the time to get back in touch with us. My colleague Julia is not in the office today, so I hope you don't mind me responding.

Please be assured, we have taken your comments on board and passed them on to the relevant teams for review. In most of our stores, fitting rooms are located in areas such as Womenswear and Menswear. Therefore, they are most commonly used by customers of that gender. This is not prescriptive and we allow customers to use whichever fitting room they feel most comfortable in using.

As Julia has mentioned, if we felt that any customer was acting inappropriately, we would take action.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Kind regards

Lauren Harvey
Executive Team
Your M&S Customer Service

sashh · 02/11/2019 05:37

RubyViolet

My mum had two mastectomies, 5 years apart. The local M and S and the mastectomy nurse worked as a team, the nurse showed the M and S staff how to measure and M and S made sure their cubicles had floor to ceiling doors and the staff knew the type of bra to suggest.

That was when women were taken seriously.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/11/2019 05:38

So what if Pete the not in any way trans predator who's just a regular old bloke feels like using the fitting room in the women's lingerie department? You've just publicly announced that he can use whichever fitting room he feels comfortable in. What if he feels most comfortable in the room where 12 year old girls are getting fitted for bras in the next cubicle? What if our hypothetical 12 year old girl doesn't feel comfortable with him there, where is she meant to go?

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/11/2019 05:42

That line about acting inappropriately is almost the same as the one I got. This is holding the party line. I responded to my letter that they’d ignored my complaint that disabled changing rooms do not have lockable doors. Currently awaiting response.

sashh · 02/11/2019 05:46

My reply to Lauren

Hi lauren, I don't mind who replies, although I would like my questions to be answered.

I would however pick up on a point, 'gender' is not 'sex', the Equality Act lists both 'sex' and 'gender reassignment' as protected characteristics.

You mention a 'customer acting inappropriately', I think a man wanting to use the changing room in a the ladies' underwear department IS acting inappropriately. Often menswear and womenswear are on different floors so it takes effort to actually seek out the the changing room where a girl may be having her first bra fitted.

I know you have a corporate line to follow but honestly can you, as Lauren, not as an M and S employee not see how creepy that is? And whilst the man may be comfortable I certainly would not be, so where am I supposed to change? I don't want to change with men in the mensroom, I don't want to change in the women's room when there is a possibility of a male walking in.

I have yet to be in an M and S that does not have multiple changing rooms so why can't you designate one as 'mixed sex'?

Have a nice weekend Lauren, unless you are reading this on Monday in which case I hope you did have a good weekend

Lamahaha · 02/11/2019 06:22

Has the Times article been posted yet? Great comments at the end.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ladies-or-mens-use-whichever-fitting-room-you-feel-comfy-in-says-m-s-czpvxhppk

Lamahaha · 02/11/2019 06:23

Full text

Marks & Spencer has upset some shoppers by declaring that customers can use whichever fitting room they “feel comfortable” with regardless of their gender.

Female customers expressed concerns that men could be allowed to try on clothes in ladies’ changing rooms.

Jean Hatchet, a feminist campaigner, claimed on social media yesterday that a man had used female changing rooms in a store while a teenage girl was having a bra fitting.

In response, a company spokesperson said: “All M&S fitting rooms have lockable cubicles designed to protect each customer’s privacy. As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves.”

The statement prompted a backlash online and some women said they would no longer shop at the stores.

Ms Hatchet, 53, from Yorkshire, said the company’s response was dismissive of women’s concerns. “If you have a bra-fitting area in a women’s changing room then it is for women and girls with breasts to be talking about their bodies and should not be accessed by men,” she said. “This is utterly unacceptable to compromise women’s wellbeing and their safety.”

She wrote on Twitter: “Cubicle or no cubicle. Curtain or no curtain. Open space changing or not. Men should not have access to any of these female spaces alongside women.”

There has been growing debate over the issue in recent years and some women’s groups argue that allowing transgender people to use female changing rooms undermines women’s rights. The Equalities Act prohibits discrimination on grounds of gender reassignment.

Marks & Spencer was embroiled in a similar row last year after the Silent Witness actress Liz Carr complained that her transgender friend had been refused entry into a fitting room.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ladies-or-mens-use-whichever-fitting-room-you-feel-comfy-in-says-m-s-czpvxhppk

SisyphusRocks · 02/11/2019 06:33

Does anyone have a share token for the Times article please?

Lamahaha · 02/11/2019 06:36

The full text is above, but a share token is better as you'd get the excellent comments thread.

TipseyTorvey · 02/11/2019 06:42

I emailed m and s to complain yesterday and have had a similar response to those below. Obviously the party line and they're holding firm. I will respond to say that until they change their policy I will not be their customer (annoyed because I was just about the buy the beauty advent calendar but fuck it).

Akire · 02/11/2019 07:49

My local M&S Disabled changing room has a dodgy curtain I know because it’s the only space I can use. I have previously had staff and customers pull back the curtain because the space is so deep it’s hard to tell who’s in there and staff often just fill it with rails.

So Head office saying all have lockable spaces is wrong. Unless they have spent a lot of money to this previously which I doubt.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/11/2019 07:50

Maybe a curtain is easier for people who can’t use locks? My mum had arthritis and would have had problem with locks.

JustAnotherMammi · 02/11/2019 08:02

What is their email? I've looked on their website but can only find the online form.
I'm going to send one too. They need to know women have voices.

Lamahaha · 02/11/2019 08:12

A great post on this thread, which was deleted by MN, has been reposted in the Facebook group ReSisters United and has 290 likes and 72 shares at this time. Credit given to @BickerininBrattle with a link to this thread.

Lamahaha · 02/11/2019 08:13

Sorry, that should be @BickerinBrattle

Justabaker · 02/11/2019 08:14

@Sparklfairy @Dangerfloof Please DM your Twitter handles. Some great ideas here.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/11/2019 08:18

If they're trying to get you deleted it's because you're getting under their skin. The truth tends to do that.

TipseyTorvey · 02/11/2019 08:21

[email protected] is the address I used and got a response from.

Bourdic · 02/11/2019 08:22

It may be true that a curtain is helpful but the point is that M and S are lying about all cubicles bring lockable and also if a curtain is necessary because of disability, then the woman in there is much much less safe from attack.

Trafalger · 02/11/2019 08:23

My local m&s was all curtains on the female changing rooms when I last went on september. So the line about all lockable is just wrong.

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