It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

Have just had a look at the Times article. TMany excellent comments and some robust responses to the 'Why does it matter?' brigade. Share token:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ladies-or-mens-use-whichever-fitting-room-you-feel-comfy-in-says-m-s-czpvxhppk?shareToken=b4753d2e1ed01de515be12b8257e7c5e

Sorry but anyone who tried to pretend that it’s not incredibly easy to tell a biological woman from a transwoman, and a bio man from a transman is either:

A) A trans person themselves and deluding themselves

B) Legally blond

C) Just plain lying.

As previously pointed out, it’s possible to achieve a lot with lighting, staging, makeup and filters but in real life very very few people are fooled.

Even Blaire White - who has had shitloads of surgery including facial feminisation - isn’t 100% convincing in real life.

*legally BLIND obviously ^

I just skimmed the first few comments. Not going well, eh Sparky?

Legally blond

I had a fleeting moment of confusion as to why Reese Witherspoon would be getting involved with this

Ta reality

It's so fcking irritating to read -

The Equalities Act prohibits discrimination on grounds of gender reassignment.

entirely in isolation as lack of other info implies that individuals we're concerned about have had full surgical GRA. Whilst this is still not ok so many people will read this and assume we're all mean and will have no clue LITERALLY ANY MAN can rock on up. It also reinforces the inaccuracy that trans = all surgery done and actually living as the other sex.

I did however piss myself laughing st the comment about a man buying a bra to support his rolled up socks

Legally blonde

I would love her to wade in with support!

I have messaged them but didn't get a reply yet.

Wonder why. I did eventually get one from Always bla bla bla, mew mew mew, nonsense nonsense nonsense. I have typed out a few replies but deleted them all because I really don't know if I can be bothered. I have voted with my feet on this one (and have found some brilliant alternatives that I am kicking myself for not trying before).

Funnily enough, I have 8 close female relatives who have also decided that it's just not worth it - not only users but purchasers for foodbanks.

Ive been watching this thread and reinstated my twitter feed specially. I’ve just emailed [email protected] to air my thoughts and join the M&S no more stampede.

Yes, it’s happening already in Canada apparently. I’ve read twitter feeds stating things like a man identifying as female entered the female changing rooms, stripped to underpants and sat stroking erect penis under clothing with door / curtain open. Staff informed but refused to get involved as the person identifies as female.

I wonder how staff would have reacted if they'd been told that a biological woman was publicly wanting?

I'll bet someone would have intervened.

Excuse the length of the following but wanted to share what I have sent to Steve Rowe in case of help to anyone. I'm aware I've repeated some points but I couldn't help but reinforce them!

---

Mr Rowe,

I would like you to justify the logic of your company’s decision to allow people to choose which changing room they use based on self ID.

Your decision means:

If someone who self identifies as female feels comfortable only in changing rooms with women, they will now be free to use them. There is no compromise on their wants and their wishes are respected.

If a female feels comfortable only in changing rooms with other women they will now share with anyone who says they identify as a woman, even if they present as male. There is now a total compromise on their wants and their wishes are not respected.

Where is the line on this? If someone who presents as male says they identify as female, are your staff really going to say they can’t use the changing rooms?

Your poor staff will be put in an impossible situation and probably be terrified of being accused of transphobia, so they are unlikely refuse access to the women’s changing rooms for someone who presents as male but says they identify as female.

Your stores have a huge chunk of the market when it comes to women's shopping habits. Our family have used you for everything from first bras and gifts to daily lunches and Christmas dinner.

I do not want young women in my family to have their first bra fitting in changing rooms with people who identify as female but present as male. It is unfair and shows that your company is no longer an ally of women and girls.

You say your decision is about inclusivity, when in fact you are alienating women and girls by clearly respecting the wishes of people who self ID as female but can present as either gender. Why does inclusivity not also cover the inclusion of women and girls' needs?

I would like you to answer a key question: how do you plan on enforcing your new rule if someone who presents as male says they identify as female and so wants to use the women’s changing room?

I look forward to hearing from you with hopefully more than a template marketing response.

*wanking, not wanting

I wish autocorrect would stop policing my language

So I’m about to mosey onto a large branch near me to look at the changing rooms. How will I know if it’s unisex? Have they change the signs?

I’m not quite at the stage when I will grab a pair of elastic waisted slacks and try to enter the Men’s room just yet!

Just me who thinks "Marks & Spencer" Have Fallen sounds like a very dodgy sequel with Gerard Butler?

So men get a free pass to wank where they want? Twice I've reported to the police a man coming up behind me and openly wanking. Can't remember which law this contravenes - gross indecency - but it's definitely against the law. He didn't attack me physically. Just came up behind me wanking. So if he'd done it in a women's changing room that wouldn't be against the law?

Going in. Geeze their clothes are blah.

Just me who thinks "Marks & Spencer" Have Fallen sounds like a very dodgy sequel with Gerard Butler?

No

Ok. So ‘fitting rooms’ in ladies wear dept... no sex signage. Separate cubicles around an open space. Some have wooden doors and some curtains. Doors to floor but not to ceiling. The large curtained room has rails and a chair for someone who may be disabled or use a wheelchair. Ads for bra fitting service in rooms.

Going to check out men’s kids and lingerie areas.

Approaching men’s fitting rooms. Again just called fitting rooms with no sex indicator. Too chicken to go in but really - nothing to say I can’t? Off to lingerie for a looking.

Since posting the links to studies whereby sex attacks in unisex changing rooms have been studied and reported, since explaining to them WHY allowing anyone into female changing rooms is open to abuse, funny how none of the "don't be ridiculous, it'll never happen" brigade haven't returned.

Good work fekko 👍👍😂🥇

Loving the live posting!

Loos out of order so who knows? Again no sex on the signage I’m the lingerie department - why didn’t I notice this before?

Again nothing to stop a man going in - no sex signage and it’s in the fancy panties department. One nice woman assistant at the entrance sorting through underwear. Can’t see her challenging a male entering.

I naughtily said ‘watch out for in the unisex changing rooms’ to a woman who walked past me into the room with a handful of skimpy underwear.

I’ve emailed as well. The more emails the better. Stupid fools.