Center Parcs upholding single sex spaces?

[gcnotterf1]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

An honor system or honesty system is a philosophical way of running a variety of endeavors based on trust, honor, and honesty. Something that operates under the rule of the "honor system" is usually something that does not have strictly enforced rules governing its principles.

Not only have the reasons for single sex spaces not gone away, but women in developing countries are still desperately trying to get them.

Then you have the issue of transgender men to consider. Do you want them in the female changing room with their new genitalia? According to your rules they can't use the men's changing room because you consider them to be women. If a transgender women is a threat to you, why isn't a transgender man also a threat? You don't want to apply the same logic?

A female who identifies as transgender does not represent additional Safeguarding risk to women & girls changing/showering in female single sex spaces.

A transgender man may of course not wish to use female single sex changing space & has the option of private rooms at Centre Parcs.

As I answered yesterday.
The proportionate response which maintains Safeguarding, dignity & privacy applies to all Centre Parc Spa customers.

it is unacceptable to ask questions of a transperson (of either sex) about what surgeries they may or may not have had & then treat people differently according to their response.

The private changing room should be available to anyone who identifies as trangender (regardless of medication or surgery) should they not wish to use the changing room of their sex.

Centre Parcs should not however grant access to the opposite sex changing facilities on a self-identification basis.
This is a Safeguarding failure & puts females at risk as well as compromising the privacy & dignity of all.

Communal changing & showering spaces were & should be single sex for safety dignity & privacy.

Most transmen never acquire "new genitalia". For those who do, and I'm saying this as kindly as possible, it is still going to be very clear that said genitalia is not a penis that they were born with. I recall a Guardian article asking men how they feel about their penises that had a photo for each person, rather small image as there were a lot of them. Even at that size, scrolling past not paying much attention, not having my contact lenses in, I still spotted the surgically created genitalia immediately. And that's if I somehow missed every single other physical cue as to the person's sex.

Women here are not going to turn on transmen (or lesbians, or whoever else you attempt to use as human shields) no matter how much some would like us to.

If the aim is to provide a 100% safe environment you will need to focus on all persons intentions, not their gender identity or sexuality. All groups will and do contain people with bad intentions. The problem of course is how do you identify them and prevent them from entering?

Everyone who understands/is concerned for Safeguarding or Health & Safety knows that risk can never be entirely eradicated.
Safeguarding identifies potential risks to children & vulnerable adults welfare and then takes steps to reduce them.

CRB/DBS checks do not identify everyone who has sexually abused a child to prevent them working with children in schools etc. The check of previous convictions & police intelligence is though a valuable part of the Safeguarding framework at recruitment stage.
No environment where children are can be made 100% safe, this is no argument to remove what are known effective Safeguards. Safeguarding has always evolved to become more effective until recently with challenges to it based on the assertion of individual adult claimed 'rights'.
Safeguarding is the responsibility organisations, the State & every adult has to protect children & vunerable adults from harm.

Little wonder #NoDebate was considered the most sensible game plan.

Indeed.

It didn't work, and so now the backup plan is being deployed. It's called "bully and threaten everyone who doesn't do what you want".

Also how are you going to police any system you come up with? It's impossible to filter out every bad actor based on the criteria of gender identity.

Adult males should not use single sex spaces where girls & women are naked or showering.

We all have a reponsibility to Safeguard children & vulnerable adults.

It didn't work, and so now the backup plan is being deployed. It's called "bully and threaten everyone who doesn't do what you want".

Bullying, threatening & silencing people concerned that Safeguarding should apply will always increase risks of serious harm.

LangCleg wrote Thu 21-Feb-19

"How did the scandal of TV entertainers grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of Catholic priests grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of on-street gangs grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

Because if you create a sacred caste of any group and silence anyone asking questions about individuals on behalf of the sacred caste, abusers will see, infiltrate, and groom and exploit children. That''s how."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3512177-Julia-Long-asking-Munro-Bergdorf-about-child-exploitation?pg=12

Agree. Transmen might, as individuals, reject us, but we aren’t rejecting them.

Many of us have daughters who identify as male due to ROGD, so we know full well it would be absurd to expect them to change, shower or sleep in spaces for males. These are often vulnerable girls who have experienced trauma and/or have eating disorders. We pay close attention to the testimony of FTMTF detransitioners.

The last thing we want is for transmen to be put in men’s prisons, for example.
Exogenous testosterone does help some natal females build muscle, but it cannot make them as big or as strong as natal males. Humans cannot change sex.

When adult males try to use teenage girls against me the irritation I feel as a result is aimed at the adult males, not the teenage girls. As it would be for most women.

Transwoman, isn’t a subset of women though is it? It’s a descriptor if a man with a particular life experience. To ignore that is to deny much of what makes up a transwoman. WHY do you want to do that?

once again, transgender women are not males

Sorry to labour the point, but in what way is a transgender woman (gender identity) not male (sex)?

When adult males try to use teenage girls against me the irritation I feel as a result is aimed at the adult males, not the teenage girls. As it would be for most women.

Indeed.

There is zero symmetry between middle-aged men who transition, and teenage girls. They are polar opposites.

Sex & age are always significant in power dynamics. Recognising power dynamics makes it possile to see where potential abuse of power is most likely.

This is why a lot of Safeguarding is specific to sex and/or age.

So are we saying transwoman have less honour than a teenage boy, as almost every teenage boy would never even think of entering a room full of women who could be in various stages of undress.

What’s really interesting is how this knowledge is cross species. My lurcher bitch can tell a human male from a human female a mile off on a dark night

Of course. That'll be the millenia of evolution. Throughout all of mammalian history I think it would have been an evolutionary advantage to be able to tell male from female instinctively. My experience with young children is that they can tell instinctively XX from XY adults regardless of dress or 'social' cues.

Biology matters.

You'd think that humans would have realised by now that ignoring biological reality doesn't end well.

I've known horses that couldn't tolerate the presence of men, too. And cats. If members of other species can tell the difference between male and female humans it's a bit silly to think women won't be able to.

This ridiculous notion that having rights accorded to one protected characteristic affords rights granted to another needs to stop.

Completely agree. It's an absolute dogs dinner of wordy nonsense.

Women need the protected characteristic of sex, because they're women. Not because they're men who want to be women.

I foster dogs, as well as working with them and you can tell which sex abused them, by their reactions to my clients that visit. I know it’s a shocker and NAMALT 🥱 💤 but it’s usually the men that they’re afraid off, no matter how they identify. I’m waiting for the dog warden to lift them and throw them into kennels, for the crime of misgendering.

There was a thread on Reddit I think? From the wife of a late transitioner upset that their dog simply refused to stop misgendering the person transitioning by being scared of them, as dog was of male people in general. Even some of the trans people responding were pointing out that expecting a dog to turn its superior sense of smell off was a bit unrealistic.

I think it's sad that we're at a point in society where we accept that dogs and other animals may have a negative reaction to male bodies, but we expect women and children to somehow gaslight themselves out of exactly the same reaction. Just for the tiny, tiny minority of people who could USE A THIRD SPACE ANYWAY.

Why don't they? The only answer is WANTING to cause harm and thinking themselves better than women and children.

You'd think that humans would have realised by now that ignoring biological reality doesn't end well.

There is a direct correlation with the removal and/or disregard for age based Safeguarding which should have protected the children (vulnerable girls) who were abused by organised groups of adult males in Manchester, Rotherham etc.

I posted up thread that my rescue lurcher girl HATES men.
ALL men (except my DH who she has learned to love and my son who she has learned to tolerate. She might be coming round to the lollipop man too, but only because he has a pocket full of dog treats) 😂

The only time she shows any fear towards female people is when they are wearing puffa jackets. She HATES puffa jackets. Men in puffa jackets are THE WORST.