Center Parcs upholding single sex spaces?

[gcnotterf1]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

Transitioning is the act of undergoing any steps to live as the gender you identify with.

So it doesn't have to be surgery, then? It could be clothes? Hair?

Girl children in a changing room can't possibly somehow magically know what point of transition someone's at or even reasonably what transition means (especially as it apparently means different things to different people and is entirely subjective) .

All they know is what they see.

Then then have feelings based on the reality of what they see. Fear, confusion, humiliation. Fear. Fear. Fear.

Apparently how they feel doesn't count.

Who does it benefit to make girls afraid?

Afraid of what will happen if they don't comply?

Who does it benefit? What type of person doesn't care about a child being afraid? What kind of person wants that?

Then then have feelings based on the reality of what they see. Fear, confusion, humiliation. Fear. Fear. Fear.

Apparently how they feel doesn't count.

Why would it?

They're just props in the wonderful, heartwarming life story of an MTF trans person bravely overcoming adversity and using female facilities.

So it doesn't have to be surgery, then? It could be clothes? Hair?

Under the proposed changes to Scottish gender legislation, it could be simply changing your name and having a utility bill to prove you use it.

As always, ask the question; "Who Benefits?". It's not children, or females.

The body has a physiological reaction to fear - your heart beats faster.

When I've been trapped with male bodied strangers my heart rate has gone through the roof. I know that had I been 9 and in a changing room I'd been told was single sex and in a state of undress and a male bodied person had walked in, I'd have felt trapped and my heart rate would have gone through the roof. I would have felt trapped, I'd probably have frozen though I'd have been desperate to flee.

This can be measured. Arguably you could probably do a research study on it - I think it would be interesting to see when tween girls (and girls of all ages) experience stress responses in their day to day lives. I've had relatives wear heart monitors for a couple of days for diagnostic purposes - why not for research? See what it's like to be a girl.

Of course nothing like this will ever be done because apparently no-one gives a shit about the feelings of the entire girl child population of the UK.

Under the proposed changes to Scottish gender legislation, it could be simply changing your name and having a utility bill to prove you use it.

Well yes, I'm wondering what Bronners answer would be.

I think the idea is that the trans persons discomfort is so great and they’ve been through so much that the women’s discomfort at their presence isn’t relevant???

But being hurt or scared or confused isn’t a free ticket to hurt, scare and confuse others. It’s not ok.

The question really for most women is how to deal with it in real life? What is a fair and just response to such abusive inconsiderate and rude behaviour? Not on the internet. Not when you have time to think. When you are startled, vulnerable and overwhelmed.

"Unfortunately, you need to take it up with Stonewall and the likes of Stephen Whittle, who have deliberately defined gender reassignment in such a way that it includes anyone."

Including a lot of gender non conforming feminists, who don't believe in gender. Yet the description is so loose it covers us to !

Bronners1978
The majority of trans people don’t ever take any steps to live as the gender they identify with

There are various reasons for this. Such as fear of rejection (why I waited 20 years)

If a man wishes to live as a woman, that process must, absolutely must be mindful of the feelings of the women and girls around them.
Seemingly with so little concern or compassion for women and young girls in these situations, I struggle to find any reason why MTF should be handed this privilege.

For a grown man, fear of rejection doesn't cut it, it doesn't even come close. Work through your fear of being ostracised and you might find the solution.

A bit of humility would go a long way. imo.

okay since Vicky is on this thread I have to ask, though without much hope of an answer:

Why the absolute insistence on using the women's room? It's my understanding that Center Parcs has a family changing room where Vicky could have been perfectly comfortable.

Why DEMAND to be in the women's open plan changing room despite knowing that many women and young girls will be frightened or traumatised by her presence?

We know it's not about Vicky's safety. What possible benign motive can be attributed to Vicky's insistence on getting naked around naked women and young girls? I would really like to know this. I can't see any reason to think anything other than the absolute worst of a person who insists on doing this, and I would like to know what motive Vicky thinks we should attribute.

You can easily can tell the difference between males and female, irrespective of clothing make up - face, hands, height, shoulders, jaw structure, Adam’s apple, gait, hips etc.

I imagine there are a scant few younger slim men who may pass for women with the right attire/make up.

Nakedness of course shows everything - but by then it’s too late. School girls seeing adult naked males. Not Acceptable - particularly in supposed safe spaces.

No rule is fool proof when people insist on breaking them. Would be good if all people respected the needs of others and applied the rules

School girls seeing adult naked males. Not Acceptable - particularly in supposed safe spaces

This. And in some ways those safe spaces can then become traps that abusers can use, such as in the case of the 10 year old assaulted in the Morrison's loos that Datun posted upthread.

I've been flashed many times - it was markedly less frightening when it happened outside where I could run away / attract someone else's attention. In a changing room or toilet where you're enclosed it's much more frightening.

@langbanned

We should call it the ‘100 meter rule’ as per @golgiapparatus’ pertinent point.

Exposure of adult male penis by swimming pool surrounded by other people/ lifeguards who can help women/girls = illegal

Exposure of adult male penis in changing room where women and girls are most vulnerable - isolated/enclosed/naked themselves = legal

You can’t make this shit up!!!

Remember when an entire teenage water polo team saw a penis in the women’s shower?

The police said it was ok because the man identified as a woman?

eu.desertsun.com/story/news/2019/01/24/pool-getting-unisex-shower-formal-policy-after-teens-encounter-trans-woman/2670287002/

I can't take credit for the Morrison's loos post Langbannedforsafeguardingkids. But I can't see who posted it now.

I posted the naked male born individual, licking their lips, whilst photographing their penis in the mirror in a female facility, and the transwoman brandishing a sword coloured in the trans colours, in the ladies.

Here is a thread for anyone pretending/denying you can’t tell women from transwomen.

mobile.twitter.com/palladianblue/status/1221953536579096576

Sorry Datun - I misremembered. It was DuLANGMondeFOREVER who posted this link. www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3928585/transgender-sex-offender-female-only-fife-hostel-katie-dalatowski-furious-residents/

When there are so many examples of things that never happen and it doesn't matter if they do happen because girls don't matter - I find my middle aged mum brain starts to freeze with the terror of what my pubescent child will have to deal with growing up.

And then I sometimes get things mixed up.

I remain crystal clear on the things that matter though. Like it not being acceptable for adult males to be in spaces my daughter believes are single sex.

And then I sometimes get things mixed up.

I completely understand. 😁

I'm also never sure whether or not photographs will be deleted. Which is why I described the two I posted, just in case.

I did in terms of people denying you can ascertain someone's sex. I have another screenshot of a gathering of transwomen and transman, and you can tell, quite easily, which sex they all are.

There are 6 1/2 thousand genetic differences, after all.

Exposure of adult male penis by swimming pool surrounded by other people/ lifeguards who can help women/girls = illegal

Exposure of adult male penis in changing room where women and girls are most vulnerable - isolated/enclosed/naked themselves = legal

Yes Thin it's insane.

I mean, I know which scenario I'd prefer to be in and I'd prefer my children to be in - the former is unpleasant, the latter is fucking terrifying.

And the latter, lest we forget, is a scenario where if we complain we may be branded 'bigot' and have the police turn up to question us for wrong think.

When I was flashed outside a cinema when I was about 16 I reported it to the police. They took my report of a crime very seriously - apparently he was a repeat offender.

What flasher would seriously do that any more? Why intimidate and threaten young girls outside when you can do it in the comfort of a nice enclosed warm space where they can't get away and have been tricked into sharing with you?

Yes, at least when I’ve been flashed at it’s been in the street or on public transport, and not when I am partially closed or naked and thus extra vulnerable.

Also when I was flashed, I could get away and I was clothed. I would imagine it's a much greater thrill to be able to expose yourself to women and girls when they are in a state of undress and can't easily get away.

@Langbanned

Yep - legalised abuse.

Nice one Stonewall