Center Parcs upholding single sex spaces?

[gcnotterf1]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

I see you’re attacking me rather than critically considering what your stats actually mean.

Where's the attack?

Bronners are you taking transition to mean having had genital surgery? Because GRS doesn't mean that.

Can you show me where having genital surgery is the criteria for anything? Gender recognition certificate, access, anything?

You, personally, might feel as though it should be the criteria to have you accepted as a woman, but there are plenty of transwomen who disagree. Many think it should be longevity, or whether they 'pass', or just because they really, really want to.

This is where your 90% stat comes from incidentally (I found it in FPFW originally). It does clearly state that of the population with gender incongruity only a small number actually transition.

The stat has been regularly abused by gender critical feminists and taken out of context.

data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/transgender-equality/written/19292.pdf

It has not been "abused by gender critical feminists", it has been used by transgender activists to push for their demands to be met and women's voices ignored.

Bronners - there isn't any benefit accrued on the basis of surgery. I don't know what point you're making.

Let’s not forget this charming. Films in the women’s toilet in Asda, then sexually assaults a 10 year old girl in a women’s toilet in Morrisons, then gets housed in a women’s shelter.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3928585/transgender-sex-offender-female-only-fife-hostel-katie-dalatowski-furious-residents/amp/

No males in spaces designated for females, NONE, is the only solution.

I'm very confused by your argument Bronners. Yes, only a very small number of people have GRS and that number does not include Vicky.

By all means campaign for your own spaces. Like someone said upthread I will be fully behind you. As a sex we have fought long and hard just to get what we've got.

I can only liken it to the Red Hen fable. Women have done all the work and now others want to benefit from that without doing anything or giving anything in return. You've got the farmer (government, police et all) telling the Little Red Hen (women) to be nice and share or you'll be in trouble but like the little Red Hen we are saying no, work for your own reward. Why should we give you anything, just because you demand it.

This bit's interesting, don't you think, Bronners1978?

The transgender field includes those whose gender identity is completely incongruent with the sex they were assigned at birth, and also all shades in between, and outside, the gender spectrum. Those that do not conform to the binary model are, by definition, 'non-binary' and in a few cases, non-gender. All of these individuals may experience gender discomfort or dysphoria, and take steps, however small, to reduce or eliminate this incongruence; they should therefore be regarded as meeting the criteria for inclusion under the gender reassignment characteristic. The essential factor here is not the label: transsexual, transgender, non-binary, but rather the process, however modest, through which individuals seek to overcome their discomfort.
If the EA is found to exclude a large part of the broader trans population (see FRA figures under Prevalence above), then the Act appears to be undermining its own equality objectives. Non-binary/genderqueer individuals have appeared in the UK official Department of Health documentation from at least 2008.

Appears to be confirming that all these hundreds of thousands of "incongruent" people should be protected under the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment"

Which is exactly the point.

I mean, I don't blame Bronners from being miffed, if that is the case.

It must be galling to have gone through all the surgery, only to have some fully intact AGP Johnny Come Lately waltz in and claim the exact same rights.

Unfortunately, you need to take it up with Stonewall and the likes of Stephen Whittle, who have deliberately defined gender reassignment in such a way that it includes anyone.

‘Full transition’ transsexuals are victims of the Trans Rights Activists success.
Reminds me of Douglas Murray’s thing about race/sex/gay equality - that the train was pulling nicely into the station and overshot the tracks killing a bunch of people!

I think some people on this board are trying to provoke in order to get this very informative thread shut down.

Ah yes Datun, like India Willoughby on this thread, now identifying as ‘cis’.
‘She wants to separate herself from the bearded trans women who have made no physical changes. She sees a difference between those who pass as she does and those who are visibly Transwomen. She is breaking the rules thus earning the wrath. There must be many transwomen like her who have made huge amounts of effort and spent a fortune on surgery who are now classified in the same bracket as every transwomen from Ian Huntley to Jessica Yaniv. It must be perturbing as transwomen like her were always living fully as women without much controversy up until recently. There is so much nuance which is lost totally in ‘acceptance without exception, #no debate’
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3658538-India-Willoughby-identifying-as-a-cis-woman

I think that 88% stat came from a community survey in NYC? May be remembering that wrong though.

Bronners is quite right that the higher figure comes from GIRES. It suggests that less than 5% of people they consider "transgender" have any medical treatment at all. So the real figure for genital surgery is likely to be very very small indeed.

Bronners, for the sake of saving a few pages of posts, could you specify what you mean when you say "transition"?

I’ve saved the thread as a PDF to send to Centre Parcs.

Great, I was just about to suggest someone saves the thread! Not able to at the moment

WOAH - look at what's happened here

Clymene asks

Vicky - can I ask you if you care that women will have felt uncomfortable when you walked through the communal changing room?

I follow up with

And what about female children? Do you care if female children felt uncomfortable

And then Girl leaves. Because we're asking if they care about young girl children at all. So, the answer is no - very very clearly no. They don't care if girl children feel scared or trapped or embarrassed or uncomfortable when unexpectedly confronted with a male body.

They're leaving because we're asking about kids feeling safe and they leave because they can't cope with that. When they're putting girls - children - in a position of NOT being able to leave when undressed in front of a male stranger.

Nice. Very nice.

My 9 yo would feel incredibly hurt, scared, confused if she saw a male body in a space she'd been told was single sex and was therefore doing something like getting undressed - which incidentally she'd ONLY be doing if she thought the space was single sex. She would NOT use a changing room clearly labelled mixed sex. It's deception, it's lies, it's violation of consent of children.

WE FUCKING SEE YOU.

Transitioning is the act of undergoing any steps to live as the gender you identify with. Change identity or start medical treatment.

For 20 years I didn’t, I was still trans, just not transitioned.

When I came out, it took several years to get to having gender reassignment surgery. During that time, I was a trans woman with a penis.

Just as Vicky is now.

The majority of trans people don’t ever take any steps to live as the gender they identify with.

There are various reasons for this. Such as fear of rejection (why I waited 20 years).

What's any of this got to do with using communal women's changing rooms Bronners?

Erasing boundaries that’s what i5 is

A girl sees someone not female in female changing rooms

Shut up that girl don5 object. Say nothing. Keep your bad thoughts to yourself girl

After all that’s what you were taught at school that girl