Center Parcs upholding single sex spaces?

[gcnotterf1]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

Bronners

Being able to tell someones sex shouldn't have anything to do with segregation. Sex segregation relies on people understanding what sex is.

If a male individual wants to access the female provision, then perhaps he needs to be gently re-educated as to what sex means? And why it's often not comfortable for women in a mixed sex space where they or their daughters are undressing.

That way, women will not be forced into the position where they have to challenge males. Something that you seem to think is inevitable?

As someone from a Jewish family, I can only see more problems for Jewish women. They will have to start booking private pools next, which, admittedly, some of them have already started to do given that women-only swimming means the potential of a trans woman in the pool.
Things are becoming very complicated.

The vast majority of assaults commited in these spaces have absolutely nothing to do with a trans person or a person claiming to be trans.

But that's the whole point.

If we know that males are excluded from female spaces, then seeing one in a female space instantly triggers a warning, followed by action to keep us safe - even if the man is harmless.

But if we are not allowed to question the presence of a man in a female space, our first line of defence is destroyed, and girls are taught to erode the boundaries rather than establish them.

The people behind that claim have since admitted it was a lie to try and undermine trans rights.

Citation?

Part of the protection for women & girls lies in it not being normal or acceptable for anyone of the opposite sex to enter our spaces. If a man knows he can simply walk into a women's toilet or changing room and that nobody will dare challenge him, that's one level of protection gone. And any biologically male trans individual who does that, however harmless and well-meaning, is complicit in that erosion of our safety.

@Bronners1978, we can expect them to behave appropriately. No one is barring my sons from women's toilets when they go to the cinema. My sons know not to enter women's spaces. It would be intrusive, disrespectful and cause women distress.

Why can't we expect the same consideration and courtesy from transwomen? Are you implying they can't behave unless policed - if so, how transphobic of you. Use a third space or one appropriate to your sex. To do otherwise is misogynistic (and kind of creepy.)

I am both gasping and laughing at "transgender or normal" on that phonecall. It's genuinely offensive! (Not laughing because someone could be offensive but due to how clonkingly tone-deaf it is when trying to be 'inclusive')

Anyway, we were planning CP holidays next year but not any more!

Here you go:

www.intomore.com/impact/anti-lgbtq-activist-admits-bathroom-predator-myth-was-concocted-as-cover-for-transphobic-hate

You still haven’t given me an objective way to ensure segregation by sex. If you can’t always tell, how do you ensure that the only people in the changing rooms are biological females?

And no, time and again you’ve proven that you cannot always tell, so please don’t use a subjective measure.

But if one knows the absolute rather than subjective truth and ignores what that truth means to others, and trespasses on their rights anyway, isn't one being subversive, for very much personal gain?
And isn't that going against the societal contracts that help a society function?

(Using 'one' rather than 'you' to indicate a general rather than personal statement or question)

If you can’t always tell, how do you ensure that the only people in the changing rooms are biological females?

Like anything else, it's self regulated. You use the space appropriate for your sex. You keep saying that if a man is insisting what are you going to do about it, is not really helping your case.

Men are stronger than women. It's kind of the point.

You still keep avoiding the issue, you cannot tell a trans woman is trans, how do you objectively exclude them?

Or, do you exclude trans women on exception when it’s appropriate to do so?

You kept to sex segregated space only. If that person isn't comfortable then they should be offered an alternative. It should not be a case that everyone else has to move over to accommodate them.

You still keep avoiding the issue, you cannot tell a trans woman is trans, how do you objectively exclude them?

And you're still not explaining why we'd ever have to?

I'm not sure what it is you want to hear, to be honest.

Trying to keep up here - bronners, are you saying that if you can't ensure everyone follows the rules then we shouldn't have rules?

You know what, women can correctly identify a man in 99.9% of cases, regardless of what he's wearing.

Being able to recognise the opposite sex is necessary to all sexually dimorphic species.

Transwomen have been assured that they "pass" because it's what they want to hear and women have been socially conditioned to be kind, and to tell men what they want to hear.

I personally have never seen a transwoman who passes. But your next question would be how would I know. And so we just go round in circles.

Sex segregation should be based on sex. If women have to keep challenging males, then we need a process of re-education.

You still haven’t given me an objective way to ensure segregation by sex.

Why are you demanding that women solve the problem of their boundaries being trampled by males? Everyone knows what sex they are. Everyone.

You still haven't provided a way to identify which males are risky to females. And a way to identify which women and girls do not consent to males in their space but are unlikely to voice this. Provide this and then we'll talk.

Until then, males - including you if you are a TW - should not use female facilities. Just don't. I for one don't consent and even one 'no' should be enough.

Why would you (general you aimed at males of all identities) even want to be there when you know that so many women experience this as a violation?

I love going to centre parcs with my family but I will have to evaluate whether we will go in future. I cannot abide the fact that a male bodied persons feelings are far more important than women saying actually no I'm not comfortable with this in a space that specially for females. Then seeing said person crowing about that fact.

It's not a game.

You're calling bullshit on us being able to recognise men in toilets, and saying attacks never happen because of one American tv advertisement almost none of us would have seen?
The US is not the fucking world.

Does anyone have quick access to all the documented attacks by transpeople in toilets?

As far as I understand, TW pose no further risk to women than any other category of XY person. But not a reduced risk either.

We can point at attacks by TW, but they are not notable as TW crimes IMO. Just male violence.

Most men and most TW are harmless. Enough aren't that sex segregation in some situations improves the safety and dignity of women and girls.

Legislators would need to provide guidance to service providers on how to enforce the rules you want.

It’s perfectly reasonable for me to ask you what that should be.

You are afterall, asking for a major shift in public policy to move to a blanket ban on trans folk accessing spaces and facilities they have traditionally used on an honour basis.

The problem hasn’t been created by trans women, as we’re not asking for any change, you are.

A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Just because you rename something does not stop it being what it is in the eyes of everyone else.

The problem hasn’t been created by trans women, as we’re not asking for any change, you are.

Absolute nonsense. 5000 was the number originally predicted. Now it's half a million and counting.

If you don't like it, take it up with Stonewall.

They are the ones who went out of their way to merge AGP men, with transsexuals.

Nothing to do with women.

It's really not women's fault that male violence exists.

Legislators would need to provide guidance to service providers on how to enforce the rules you want.

Is this a thing? Has my gym been given guidance on how to prevent shoplifting?

'honour basis'

We were never even asked.