Page 12 | Center Parcs upholding single sex spaces?

5zeds · 25/01/2020 18:25

I don't want to go anywhere where a male bodied person is allowed to walk through communal women's changing rooms when I am in a state of undress. exactly.

OhHolyJesus · 25/01/2020 18:25

I'll also email. I've got a holiday booked for later in the year. I was relieved last year that they held firm. Now? Not so much.

scotsheather · 25/01/2020 19:13

It was bad enough CP saying there is such a thing as "full transition". There is no "transition" from male to female. You can pretend with clothes, approximate it with surgery, you're still a man/male person. Its not possible in the human species and that concept seems beyond comprehension.

vickyjgo · 25/01/2020 20:01

Just well done to Vicky Hodges. Nothing like this ie easy to fight really impressed with her. I hope they all had a great time..

stillathing · 25/01/2020 20:23

Has Vicky Hodges explained why they were so keen to walk through the open plan women's changing? Seems like a weird thing to boast about. On a feminism board.

TimeLady · 25/01/2020 20:23

Looking at Center Parc's original statement in Pink News

“If guests wish to use changing facilities appropriate to their gender, we will always speak to them to see what options are available to them, while taking into account and balancing the interests of other guests. We do offer all of our guests the option to use a private changing facility to ensure that all guests and visitors can use the spa."

No mention that the private facility is accessed via the communal area. Can anyone confirm that is indeed the set up?

vickyjgo · 25/01/2020 21:49

Vicky is a women so can use the women's facility with her family..

EverardDigby · 25/01/2020 21:50

Vicky is a women so can use the women's facility with her family..

What is a woman?

PurpleCrowbarWhereIsLangCleg · 25/01/2020 22:09

Oh dear.

CP isn't much use to me, as I live overseas, but my brother has been holidaying for years there with his young family.

His oldest is mid teens now, so he & SIL are considering moving on, but they were going to have one last hurrah this Easter.

Just sent him the link to this thread, & turns out SIL had already seen it.

They aren't terribly keen on their three daughters being exposed to male bodied persons in the female changing space. Given that, as adults, they find CP a bit dull & expensive but cough up because it's FUN & SAFE for their dds.

Center Parc's loss is Euro Camp's gain this Easter.

Mossyrock · 25/01/2020 22:14

So CP do in fact allow penis-owning and recently-depenised XY people into female changing spaces. Thanks for flagging this up Vicky.

Blurring boundaries puts women and children at risk. This will embolden non-trans male predators and spy camera planters who now simply have to say the magic words for access to female facilities.

Also it seems like a crazy business decision.

theflushedzebra · 25/01/2020 22:20

Vicky is a women so can use the women's facility with her family..

Clearly not, otherwise Vicky would not have had conversations with CP about access to the women's changing rooms, or an article written in Pink News. No woman would have been refused access in the first place.

Manderleyagain · 25/01/2020 23:14

It's not clear from this thread whether CP policy has actually changed.

If the policy has changed and some customers stop using the service, I think some discrimination lawyers would be interested. Some think that women self excluding from services because they are no longer (in practice) single sex amounts to indirect sex discrimination and they need cases to test it.

Everyone's needs (eg safety & dignity) need to be given serious weight, and solutions have to be found that balance the needs of different parties when they come into conflict.

5zeds · 25/01/2020 23:42

Vicky is a women so can use the women's facility with her family..
Surely Vicky is a trans woman (a male who feels they are female) and so should be using the Male changing rooms but of course feel free to feel anyway they choose.

I am female but I will NOT be able to use the female changing rooms because the person in my care is not female, and despite the fact he doesn’t have the capacity and cannot/does not present a sexual threat we won’t be using the female changing rooms because he is Male and it isn’t appropriate. We use a mixed sex cubicle to change in, because it causes the least trouble. HOWEVER my concern now would be for my female children who have to change unsupervised, and who I previously would have been happy to allow into the female changing rooms alone.....ever more complicated.

21DaysLater · 26/01/2020 00:38

GirlOnTheRoof

So glad you've had the strength to persevere and sort this out.
Good on you!!

Just remember some of us women DO stand with you!

5zeds · 26/01/2020 00:55

Why is it good?

StrangeLookingParasite · 26/01/2020 01:06

This reply has been deleted

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OwlsFlyByNight · 26/01/2020 01:30

Why are we assuming that this person is telling the truth? Until we get confirmation of the policy change from CP I think we should maybe be a bit sceptical.

Thingybob · 26/01/2020 02:22

“If guests wish to use changing facilities appropriate to their gender, we will always speak to them to see what options are available to them, while taking into account and balancing the interests of other guests. We do offer all of our guests the option to use a private changing facility to ensure that all guests and visitors can use the spa."

No mention that the private facility is accessed via the communal area. Can anyone confirm that is indeed the set up?

Can I just point out that the post from girlontheroof and the CP statement are referring to to the Aqua Sana, an adult only provision (or 14-18 year olds accompanied at all times by an adult) not the swimming complex. The Aqua Sana single sex changing areas are spacious with individual showers and individual cubicles so there is no reason for a male body to be showing more in this area than they would be in the rest of the spa. If a male body were to be exposing themselves, I would imagine they would be reported to staff in the same way that inappropriate behaviour in the other areas of the spa are reported, which is something the staff seem to deal with on a regular basis.

Mossyrock · 26/01/2020 07:01

Thingybob, if Aqua Sana offers private cubicles then I am at a loss as to why males who identify as female aren't asked to change and shower in the male changing rooms. Or why they would be so determinedly keen to access the female space.

flowery · 26/01/2020 07:12

”The Aqua Sana single sex changing areas are spacious with individual showers and individual cubicles so there is no reason for a male body to be showing more in this area than they would be in the rest of the spa”

There is usually one individual changing cubicle, accessed by walking through the open changing, where at any time women and girls will be in various states of undress.

Shower cubicles are frosted glass, would be perfectly possible to tell if a male body was using one of them.

People usually walk from the shower to their locker/changing area naked with a towel around them, which obviously is less covered than in the spa.

Mossyrock · 26/01/2020 07:43

The policy is unworkable because it is impossible for CP to prove which males are in fact trans when they claim to be so. Trans can mean a fully-passing TW or Brian who said the magic words that morning.

Letting males access private female cubicles increases the risk of voyeurism. The vast majority of spy filming incidents occur in mixed sex facilities like this.

Research indicates that TW are no more of a risk to women than any other group of males, to be clear. This is about creating loopholes and blurred boundaries which put women at risk from predatory or voyeuristic males of any identity.

5zeds · 26/01/2020 07:53

None of the females in my family would use and open plan changing room that allowed males to walk through it. None of the males in my family would walk through an open plan female changing room. So who the heck is going to be able to get changed there?

JellySlice · 26/01/2020 07:58

...there is no reason for a male body to be showing more in this area than they would be in the rest of the spa. If a male body were to be exposing themselves, I would imagine they would be reported to staff ...

That's fine, then. It's not a problem if a woman is harmed, because she can always report it. (Anyway, this never happens.)

Obviously it's the women's delicate sensibilities that must be protected (cover your eyes, dears, look away) but it's fine for the males to stroll through and enjoy the scenery.

BoswellSolver · 26/01/2020 08:09

Has CP and aquasana actually published this decision? I'm meant to be booking in for a few friends later this year (hen do) but this honestly makes me so angry that I'll consider not booking!!

I really want to go though....so if there's 'hope' and they haven't actually changed anything, then I'll still book.

Sunkisses · 26/01/2020 08:18

If this is the case then they have lost my family's custom too. I will only book holidays with companies that respect the rights of women and girls to privacy. I have also emailed them (from the contact form on their website) to ask them to clarify whether they are upholding the Schedule 3, Part 7, Section 26-28 single-sex exceptions in the Equality Act 2010