Christmas is just a load of wifework: discuss

[drspouse]

DH and I have a collaborative approach to Christmas though he tends to want to do less than I do in terms of activities, as our DS needs a bit of structure I usually overrule him.
He writes more Christmas cards than I do as we only do them for elderly relatives who don't have email and he has more of them.
However all family just want me to give them suggestions for presents for the DCs.
And could you just send me a link.
And what does DH want.
Oh can't you just buy it and I'll pay you back. Can't you wrap it too?
And the mums on FB... My goodness. And here too. I bet all the dads are not wrapping up the living room door and moving the elf and buying reindeer food. And working out which relative won't eat smoked salmon canapes and when to get their Ocado slot. And if they'll fit into their slinky dress for the work party.
It's just the whole year of sexism multiplied by 65 million isn't it?

formerbabe great post :o

Go on, say what you really think!

It is shit. I hate Christmas day. I am OK with doing christmassy things for the kids' enjoyment, and I quite like the run-up, especially making cakes etc. But Christmas day itself makes me depressed and I long for normal routine. Thank god I don't have to cook for hordes of people - I put a stop to any kind of extended family Christmas a long time ago as it was just so unbearable. I feel so sorry for people who have to deal with endless rellies all demanding their attention and time.

haha formerbabe

Since getting divorced, I pick the bits of christmas that I love. And that doesn't include stuffing myself on obscene amounts of food or spending an entire month's food budget on 3 days food. It doesn't include spending 5 hours cooking a glorified sunday lunch and obsessing about christmas breakfast. Or christmas tablewear. (each to their own.... I have a large collection of expensive tree decorations). It certaintly doesn't involve being on my own in the kitchen while other people menfolk start drinking and eating their own bodyweight in celebrations.

Like Ghouliebat, my favourite part of Christmas is the run up - the parties, drinks things, carol concerts, panto, advent calendar, shows and ice skating on xmas eve. I hate secret santa (thank god my new place doesnt do that) and am pretty luke warm about Christmas day which is mostly about an immoral amount of consumption I think (both food and money/material goods). And I'm always itching to get out of the house. This year I've signed up for Crisis. (I'm kid free).

I don't think it's very helpful to say that we need to resist the pressure, or we bring it on ourselves. That's rubbish. Mens expections is that we do it/we do the thinking/we do the organising and they whinge or expect praise for choosing one present, or peeling a few potatoes.

I was forced* to host Christmas 2 times when I was heavily pregnant - (both children 2 weeks overdue - born 2 and 6 Jan). My entire family and dh expected me to produce the normal amazing Christmas. I wasn't a martyr or unable to resist the pressure. It wasn't down to ME that I had to do it. It's just the normal wife work expectation on a much bigger scale. it's society that is wrong and sexist, not the woman for bowing to that pressure.

*I was young and emotional and pregnant -I would tell them all to fuck off now.

Restructure society.

😐

Well, to drag up an old but excellent phrase, the personal is the political. If we say no to it, if we renegotiate and agree with family/partner not to do so much and tone it down and offload some of the work, or just point blank refuse because it's DH/DP's turn (if you have one), or decide to do it differently, or just say fuck it - that is restructuring society, bit by bit. It's showing your DC you don't have to go overboard. Sharing it on here and with your friends encourages other women not to feel pressured into doing so much. Recognising when and how we feel pressured, and learning to rise above it - that is what women can do and encourage each other to do.

[santa]

Well yeah, but some of that works by telling people it needs restructuring, and that it's not just their Nigel/their MIL/their friends from NCT.

Sorry that was to cranberries

We don't do much for xmas but my dh usually cooks, used to build the kids toys too.
He wraps presents writes cards for his own work colleagues, clients, and his family.
He seems to do more than me

My ds1 now has his own family and he cooks too as dil doesn't enjoy it, he wraps presents and does cards for his side too.

I think women who do most of it tend to enjoy doing it, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

My advice is always the same on here, if you don't allow people to take advantage then they won't. If mil expects you to answer questions put her on to dh/dp to sort it out, if you don't want to.

You see, this I was forced
Unless it was by gun point or other means, the person being "forced" agreed to do it by their own free will.

I think women who do most of it tend to enjoy doing it, otherwise they wouldn't do it

This is nonsense imo. I hate it but do it purely for my children. If I didn't have children, I definitely wouldn't bother.

Keep it simple is my motto. I'm not working currently so I gladly do most of the wife work. DH appreciates it and cooks Christmas dinner when it's our turn to host. He gets the tree and puts the outdoor lights up.

I do present shopping (I enjoy it, big bargain hunter), wrapping, make arrangements to see people, plan days out, organise nativity costumes for school etc.

We don't bother with elf on the shelf, December 1st or Christmas eve boxes, Christmas cake or pudding (buy a yule log), minimal decorations, no Christmas pyjamas or duvet sets or cards. No presents for neighbours or colleagues. No evenings out really. We enjoy spending time as a family, watching films, playing board games, crafting, eating nice things, going out and looking at the lights, a trip to the theatre. You can pick and choose and ditch most of the crap,depending on wider family expectations and your circumstances of course.

Re Forced - no they don't want to do it. I certainly didn't. I was heavily pregnant and in my first pregnancy was extremely ill too. Instead of looking at me and my actions in being forced, (or feeling obliged) look at why my family (society?) thought was ok to impose that on me.

The weight of expectations on you, inbred from an early age, plus your H's beliefs, make it pretty hard to resist this pressure. And I'm a strong person.

Women do a lot of stuff they are not physically "forced" to do, because of pressure and stigma, and yes a lot of it comes from themselves, but that's because it's put there by society.

I wasn't forced to get my exMIL a Christmas present, but I did it because I felt sooooo guilty at the thought of her not getting one, just in itself, and also because she might harrumph and make a fuss which I would hate, and I just tend to feel responsible for everyone's happiness ... and I'm supposed to be a feminist! But all those feelings came from society's expectations of women and socialisation. ExP didn't give a crap and it's his own mum.

And so on and so on. Of course we could all say "No I won't do that, I can't be fucked" but I think we fear being seen as horrible, uncaring, shockingly selfish... we want to be nice, it's very deeply ingrained.

Always liked this...

@Drabarni so women who stay with a partner that abuses them are choosing to do it, so it's their fault?
Same with women whose partner is a manchild, all their fault? Or, of course, their MIL's fault.
Blame the women.

@GhoulieBat I love Jackie Fleming.
Must put some of her stuff on my Christmas list (or I won't get anything I want).

I don't really have to say anything as formerbabe has articulated everything I think for me.

And I'm saying that as someone who has never had a creepy-as-fuck elf move into my house, gets take-away on Xmas Eve, does not do Christmas boxes/Christmas pyjamas/Christmas outfits and minimises cast-in-stone traditions. So I'm doing what I can to control it but it is like a fucking disease. And it is in the shops now ... in October ... before the pumpkins have rotted.

Someone upthread mentioned wishing that Christmas stuff didn't start until December. I think that would make a huge difference. Even better, mid December.

At our house we treat Christmas as a religious festival and that makes it easier in some ways, because pretty much everything up till Christmas Eve is meant to be very low key, even a fast, and Christmas is the day and a week or so after, which is typically pretty relaxed. Given that our families and communities do the consumer thing where we start having parties and such a month ahead, we're not exactly purist about it, but it does keep things from getting too crazy ahead of time.

I think women who do most of it tend to enjoy doing it, otherwise they wouldn't do it

Define 'it'. If this thread shows anything it is that people have very different ideas of what is 'work' and what is pleasure where Christmas is concerned. Previous posters have said they like carol concerts and pantomimes and trips to the ice rink or theatre, things that don't feature in our Christmas at all and frankly I'd be miserable if they did. Some posters hate being 'stuck in the kitchen', I love being in the kitchen with the booze and the warmth and the cooking smells.

The only thing you can really say is talk to your family, decide what matters to you and them and do that.

Op, of course not, it's hard to leave an abusive man.
Sorry, no excuse if you are involved with a man child, that was choice.
I didn't want one, so avoided them like the plague, it's pretty obvious once you get to know them. Both parents have failed a manchild.

I don't think you can blame society, you don't have to follow like sheeple. Feminism aside, I wasn't going to do all that crap, told dh right from the start within our first 6 months together. He never expected it, I didn't do it. We have always shared the load equally.

This is in feminism, right?

I think women who do most of it tend to enjoy doing it, otherwise they wouldn't do it

I don't really think this is true. There are many things I see mothers not enjoying or really even seeing the value of, but feeling driven or obligated to do. I feel that way about kids parties, I wish I'd never started them, but foolishly at the time I though it would be fun. Now I think they wouldn't know any better if I hadn't started.

Op, of course not, it's hard to leave an abusive man

Of course it is and comparing it to the difficulty of saying I'm not doing Christmas crap is a bit crass.

Neither my DH or I care that much about Christmas luckily.

We keep it pretty low key

• we have a tree and virtually no other decorations
• we only buy eachother a relatively cheap present
• food tends to be things that can be shoved in the oven
• my family don't do presents
• his family send out lists with what they want and expect lists in return. We order the presents online at the same time
• wrapping gets done by both of us at the same time
• cards get done by my DH
• we do love buying presents for our DD, so much that we are often done well in advance. In fact we already have her present for next year!

We do not have elves on shelves, Christmas Eve boxes, 1st of December boxes and we don't go to pantos, grottos, lunches with Santa or other such outings.

I really like our scroogy ways and wouldn't change them for the world. It's not that I hate Christmas perse, but Christmas day and boxing day is more than enough Christmas for me!

So, where are the husbands when the organisation of parties and christmas planning and work is being done?

What I do find interesting my dsis and extended family all do xmas together and the family are all there, talking 40+ for dinner with others coming later.
The women are in charge of everything and give each other support, the men having nothing to do with anything child of family related.
However, no feminist I know would like this culture and feel subservient to the men. But the women feel liberated and wear the trousers because they are in charge of the family.

Another thing I refuse to do is attend the school Christmas fair. I'll happily donate cakes, bottles, etc but I won't go. It costs a fortune but that's not the point (I do donate money to other school events). It's claustrophobic, noisy, the kids get hyped on sweets and end up bringing home loads of tat, everyone coughing and spreading bugs around, trying to look jolly. No thanks.

It's all so wasteful and silly. The wrapping paper, the crackers full of tat, the outfits to be worn once, the cards to be (hopefully) recycled.

I was in town today and the DCs dragged me into a Christmas shop. Absolutely horrific amount of plastic shite. All quite depressing especially the people in there getting excited about it. I know it's something to look forward to but really, who is buying this tat?