Anti-terf Sady Doyle weighs in on the Always debate

[Karabair]

Because attacking rad fems never gets old when you're a lib fem scrabbling around for copy -

www.damemagazine.com/2019/10/24/the-irony-of-the-terf-war-over-feminine-products/

Contains gems like these:

"equating womanhood with menstruation is a perilous route for any “feminist” to take"

"How does a woman who believes we can rewire our bodies on the basic level of sexual desire also believe that our essences are defined, for our entire lives, by the genitalia we had as two-year-olds?"

and writing radical feminism's obituary (where have we heard that one before?):

"So TERFism ambles and stumbles on as a sort of zombie feminism, devoid of vitality or usefulness, with its one vital spark of insight long since passed into the hands of the people it thinks are enemies. We can look on it in fear, or in pity, but there is no bringing this one back. We can only move forward, trying to create the future the TERFs almost grasped but were never quite brave enough to imagine."

It wouldn't really matter what a dishonest idiot like this writes, but these lib fems have been on the front line of pushing trans ideology for years. Major US feminist blogs worked together to isolate and stigmatise radical feminists since the early 2000s. Hoyden about Town, a lib fem Australian blog who were doing the same kind of work as the USers, coined the word "TERF". Almost all those blog writers were rewarded with book contracts, writing jobs in the mainstream media and a profile. The male-owned media has used women who are happy to betray other women and girls to promote the patriarchal trans agenda and they're still doing it.

What's funny is that Sady wrote this book in 2016:

'Trainwreck: The Women We Love to Hate, Mock, and Fear ... And Why.'

Maybe what distinguishes anti-woman lib fems is their stunning (!) lack of self-awareness or self-reflection.

They should just put Uriah Heep at the top of their list of role models and be done with it.

I love MN because I can say Fuck that shit. I could only read about 1 paragraph, it might have been less

Yeah but no man has a birth canal so....

Existence itself in human terms depends upon being born. All humans were gestated in the womb of a female: they cannot cope with this reality.

I read it to see what desperate argument she could come up with to claim original rad fems had always supported trans. She manages to drag up Shulamith Firestone advocating artificial wombs as an example of how radical feminism has lost its way. It's so dishonest.

I'll never forgive Doyle for writing this poison pen letter to Andrea Dworkin three years after she'd died:

tigerbeatdown.com/2009/06/16/dear-andrea-dworkin/

It helped raise her profile though, so Sady can be proud she used a dead woman to help launch her career. It takes a special kind of feminist to do that.

four years, sorry

Honestly after the Dworkin letter I'm not sure why anyone would care what Sandy has to say about anything to do with feminism. Shit all over another woman, particularly one who's done more for women as a group than you could ever dream of? You've showed everyone exactly who you are, and your later statements will be read through that filter.

In practice, however, TERFs ascribe to a cartoonishly fragile femininity, in which a woman’s every outfit, belonging, and activity must be visibly gendered, lest her whole sense of self fall apart.

How many things are wrong with that single paragraph?

Of course it is the stereotypes which lead to trans ideology. Little Billy likes dolls and princess dresses so he must be a girl. Little Meghan likes short hair and football so she must be a boy.

And of course nobody should have a problem with Alice Cooper. He never pretended to be a woman or wanted access to women's spaces. He is the exact opposite of trans ideology, i.e. a man who is or was happily gender non conforming while not denying his manhood.

Is Sandy thick or is she lying?

I think a lot of the attacks on Dworkin by faux-fems came from jealousy, that they’d never be able to write or think the way she did.

Lol @ ‘Sandy’

I'll never forgive Doyle for writing this poison pen letter to Andrea Dworkin three years after she'd died:

Neither will I, nor when she expressed her joy in anticipating the rest of us dying off.
The path to success for the commercial feminist goes up and over our backs.

One of the hardest things about being down this rabbit hole is the intense scorn from other women who seem to be dripping with hatred. The intensity is shocking, particularly when coupled with what appears to me to be an utter lack of logic.

I haven’t read this one, but the highlights already listed here are enough. What causes it do you think? Is it living with cognitive dissonance? Attacking others is essential so you don’t have to look too closely at your own beliefs?

"equating womanhood with menstruation is a perilous route for any “feminist” to take"

Not all women menstruate. But everyone who menstruates is a woman.

-- Biology

Funny, I remember when Sady Doyle used to speak out about the hate & abuse that feminists experienced online, including the abuse she experienced herself.

Now she’s the one trashing feminists like Julie Bindel online and backing the TRA movement which is responsible for so much abuse and silencing of women. How times change... it’s depressing to see the current generation of feminists tie themselves into knots to justify a movement that prioritizes the needs of male-born people over everyone else (let’s face it, we barely hear from trans men on most issues. Can’t hear them over the din of those who grew up enjoying male-born privilege).

Gobshite.

I think misogyny is woven into every part of out lives and it's easy for some women to flip to the other side. Give those older wimmin a good kickin', don't listen to them, certainly don't hear them. Ridicule, gaslight and push them out of the public square.

They are just cool girls that will wake up one day and see that all they did was unpick hard won rights and protections. sorry

TERFs ascribe to a cartoonishly fragile femininity, in which a woman’s every outfit, belonging, and activity must be visibly gendered, lest her whole sense of self fall apart. There is no other reason why TERF figurehead Julie Bindel would be sighted, in public, throwing a fit about insufficiently feminine menstrual products.

Well, no-one personifies fragile, cartoonish femininity and visibly stereotyped actions and possessions more than Julie Bindel. FFS.

Can't say as I've ever heard of Sady Doyle before but then I'm just an ordinary woman not someone who has read or studied feminist theory or who has any intention of doing so.

None the less it is obvious to me that Doyle has no clue what she's blethering on about. Those awful TERFs, of whom I'm apparently one along with 99% of the human race, aren't the ones saying women have to wear pink fluffy things. That's the trans privilege activists. The evil TERFs are the ones living in the real world where being a woman is simply being an adult member of the female half of the human race (hint for very stupid people like Doyle, XY trans people are not female they are male).

I often wonder if people like Doyle think writing screeds of nonsensical claptrap with big words makes them sound clever. It doesn't. Clever people can make a sound argument in plain English.

Doyle is clearly dim. Menstruating is associated with womanhood and always will be because only women menstruate. See also pregnancy, breast feeding, cervical cancer, anything else that only women's bodies are capable of for good or ill. Just as things like ejaculating will always be associated with manhood. These aren't value judgements, just biological facts. It takes an incredibly thick person to deny them.

That's odd. My trans ex-husband ascribes to a cartoonishly fragile femininity, in which his every outfit, belonging, and activity must be visibly gendered, lest his whole sense of self falls apart

"In practice, however, TERFs ascribe to a cartoonishly fragile femininity, in which a woman’s every outfit, belonging, and activity must be visibly gendered, lest her whole sense of self fall apart."

Eh what? This is surely the opposite of a gender critical feminist.

If they had any genuine counterpoints to our argument, they wouldn't have to misrepresent us, would they?

Time after time we see TRAs lying about rad fem beliefs because they believe it's a gotcha and therefore they win. But reality still exists and we'll keep fighting for the importance of sex segregated spaces and the right of children of either sex to play with any toys or wear any clothes without being transed.

'TERFs ascribe to a cartoonishly fragile femininity, in which a woman’s every outfit, belonging, and activity must be visibly gendered, lest her whole sense of self fall apart.'

Has she even ever MET any feminists?

sorry

The women here are so much funnier than Sandy.

"Gobshite."

Pretty much.

With regards to "fragile feminity" I am wearing pink socks and pink jeans today, although I think my sense of self will stay intact if I take my socks off though. It's true though, it is visibly gendered. Then again, the socks are from the men's department where they had nicer colours. I'm confused.

'TERFs ascribe to a cartoonishly fragile femininity, in which a woman’s every outfit, belonging, and activity must be visibly gendered, lest her whole sense of self fall apart.'

I can think of many transwomen who fit this description. No "TERFS", though. I guess she hasn't spoken to any of the Tumblr and Twitter TRAs who're now openly saying that butch is code for TERF.

What a twerp.

No one is saying all menstrual products need to be 'gendered' (ie decorated in a 'feminine' way). least of all GC feminists.

Women are objecting to the idea implicit in the Always issue that the internationally recognised symbol for female (used by biologists etc) is now unacceptable.