Anti-terf Sady Doyle weighs in on the Always debate

[Karabair]

Because attacking rad fems never gets old when you're a lib fem scrabbling around for copy -

www.damemagazine.com/2019/10/24/the-irony-of-the-terf-war-over-feminine-products/

Contains gems like these:

"equating womanhood with menstruation is a perilous route for any “feminist” to take"

"How does a woman who believes we can rewire our bodies on the basic level of sexual desire also believe that our essences are defined, for our entire lives, by the genitalia we had as two-year-olds?"

and writing radical feminism's obituary (where have we heard that one before?):

"So TERFism ambles and stumbles on as a sort of zombie feminism, devoid of vitality or usefulness, with its one vital spark of insight long since passed into the hands of the people it thinks are enemies. We can look on it in fear, or in pity, but there is no bringing this one back. We can only move forward, trying to create the future the TERFs almost grasped but were never quite brave enough to imagine."

It wouldn't really matter what a dishonest idiot like this writes, but these lib fems have been on the front line of pushing trans ideology for years. Major US feminist blogs worked together to isolate and stigmatise radical feminists since the early 2000s. Hoyden about Town, a lib fem Australian blog who were doing the same kind of work as the USers, coined the word "TERF". Almost all those blog writers were rewarded with book contracts, writing jobs in the mainstream media and a profile. The male-owned media has used women who are happy to betray other women and girls to promote the patriarchal trans agenda and they're still doing it.

What's funny is that Sady wrote this book in 2016:

'Trainwreck: The Women We Love to Hate, Mock, and Fear ... And Why.'

Maybe what distinguishes anti-woman lib fems is their stunning (!) lack of self-awareness or self-reflection.

Women are also objecting to Always bending over backwards for one XX person because that person identifies as 'trans' while ignoring the thousands upon thousands of women who have complained about their scented, thrush inducing products.

The blatant double standard makes Always look like a bunch of misogynistic arses and clearly demonstrates trans privilege.

Meh, we've been at the stage of TRAs just making shit up for ages, openly admitting trolling 'terfs'.

I'm sure Sady doesn't actually believe it all though. That would be pretty embarrassing...

no-one personifies fragile, cartoonish femininity and visibly stereotyped actions and possessions more than Julie Bindel

I thought feminists were supposed to be reviled as mannish aggressive man-haters, when did we turn into fragile feminine flowers instead?

I thought feminists were supposed to be reviled as mannish aggressive man-haters, when did we turn into fragile feminine flowers instead?

When they needed to categorise us as 'c*s' women.

When I were a kid, 't'were dungarees and bovver boots that marked out the feminists. My dad used to use it as a verbal shorthand. I'm not sure when the accepted and expected uniform changed to feminine and fragile...

But aren't "t*rfs" supposed to be brutal and threatening towards the actual feminine flowers, trans women? That's usually how it sounds when TRAs plan action against women's meetings.
Although I do remember someone coming into FWR the other week to wokescold us and she wrote something about feminists' fear of having our femininity undermined so I guess this is the new thing.

Like Arnold I'm not versed in feminist theory or know a lot of the history behind various individuals or groups.

But when I see someone who has swallowed the trans privilege demands attribute to radfems the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they are actually saying, I have to conclude that the person writing it is either deliberately misrepresenting lying because their own argument is so weak or a bit thick.

Regarding Always - personally I couldn't care about the design of the packaging. They could have quietly changed it and said nothing and I wouldn't care. What I object to it the public announcement of the reason to try to earn woke points plus leaping to the demands of one person because they have trans privilege whilst systematically ignoring feedback from countless other women.

Not that I use there stuff since they added the 'fragrance'. I bought a packet once before I knew it was a thing and spent the whole day embarrassed as I could smell it and was worried that others would too. I have never bought another one of their packs.

Going by her definition of a GC feminist, I obviously turned into a man this morning when I got dressed in jeans and one of my husband’s tee shirts then went out to fix the broken fence. My masculinity nearly turned me into the Incredible Hulk when I hit my thumb with the hammer 🤬 Don’t worry my femininity kicked back in when a single teardrop ran delicately down my flushed cheeks. Blimey, does that mean I’m both!

There are so many women that are in a position to help protect females, but they’re more interested in following the money. I was going to ask how they are going to feel when a girl or woman that is close to them suffers terribly because of the agenda they’re supporting, but I think they’ll just turn it around on that female in order to protect themselves. They’ll do anything for the money.

We beat people up while wearing flowery dresses. We are very scary despite there only being a handful of us and us all being very elderly because they often remind us we're going to die in a few years. We are all straight, white, middle class SAHMs with no money of our own (hence why we must be funded by the American far right).

Nb for the benefit of any TRAs doing screenshots, that was sarcasm.

Compare and contrast:

Sady Doyle Oct 24, 2019

"Cisgender women have so often had to prove that we are not just our bodies; we’ve had our justified anger invalidated and cast as mere “PMS,” our ambitions erased by the supposed “biological clock” ticking in our brains, our leadership undermined by “jokes” about how we’d start firing people or launching missiles whenever we were on the rag."

MEN DON’T UNDERSTAND WOMEN’S BODIES. PERIOD. Sady Doyle Sep 12, 2019

To know that we’re fighting for our humanity, not in some abstract way, but in the very real sense of having to insist that our bodies are real, and have real people inside them. Most of us live our lives at the mercy of some kind of authority, subject to someone else’s definitions, but the thing to know, about the people making those definitions, is not just that they’re harmful — they don’t understand what they’re talking about or who they’re describing.

or this

"In fact, the more we associate an illness with women, the more likely we are to dismiss it as psychosomatic; throughout history, doctors have denied the existence of fibromyalgia, menstrual cramps, or even post-traumatic stress from sexual assault, which is what many 19th-century “hysterics” would likely be diagnosed with today."

Yeah Sady, men are women and we are all bad people if we don't pretend like you do.

She is an absolute arse.

I dunno

When you spend time reading a article I hope to get something from it

All I got was anger at some women called terfs, something Julie bindel did that was very bad and feminists wearing wrong clothes and then more anger

🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I think the anger at Julie Bindel may be related to the fact that those of us not well versed in feminist theory have actually heard of Julie Bindel.

Which suggests that unlike Sady Doyle, Julie Bindel has actually done something in her life of relevance to the mass of women who aren't well versed in feminist theory.

Damn feminists, always wearing the wrong clothes and doing femininity wrong.

The irony of Julie quoting Alice Cooper has gone right over Sady's head.

And in a piece entitled THE IRONY OF THE TERF WAR OVER “FEMININE” PRODUCTS too.

In a piece about irony it looks a bit dim to miss the ironic jokes.

Couldn't be arsed to read the text, but the name 'Sady' made me laugh. I would pronounce it as Saddy. I think they mean 'Sadie' but weren't able to spell it.

In the article Sandy is confused about how to refer to (slag off) women, without naming them & this needs translation-.

She starts off with 'T**F' because-ha- no trans there so that's OK to swear at them.
"Gender critical feminists" Quotation marks to show contempt for them.
Julie Bindel (woman) 'throwing a fit' because - you know women get upset so easily over nothing!
"feminist" her quotation marks showing she doesn't believe Rad Fem women ARE feminists of any kind.
Cisgender -Women
Cis female embodiment Try 'female'
Cis people - this again refers to women.
The women who are currently railing to keep women trapped in stereotypical boxes She forgot and called us women! (small victory dance)
TexF she starts swearing again.
"Girls" in quotation marks as she's not sure if she should use this outdated & transphobic word.
Noxiously transphobic feminist Germain Greer Feminist Germain Greer.
Moony women ..books she read by oh so obviously intellectually inferior women to her.
Assigned sex sex.
There is no viable feminism without trans feminism Yes,Trans feminism IS feminism!!.

Women who walked right up to the door of the gender binary, and who not only refused to walk through it, but who now stand, blocking the exit, jeering and throwing rocks at anyone who tries to get past.

• These ..yes..WOMEN...hurrah ! At least we are named correctly in this bizarre rant.

As an old Second Waver, since our work is now so reviled by younger feminists, I’d appreciate it if they’d fully renounce the fruits of that work rather than stand on the platform we built for them in order to cast their stones.

Truly, to be completely intellectually honest, Doyle should cut up her credit cards and renounce all rights to financial control on her own name, should turn down all writing and speaking opportunities and renounce her right to be heard on any political issue at all, should most certainly toss away birth control and even the idea of sexual pleasure and get used to lying back and thinking of England while alternately worrying about pregnancy, should mentally prepare for an old age eating cat food as was quite literally true for some. Over 50, the single biggest demographic in American poverty prior to pension and Social Security changes Second Wavers fought for. And she should expect, if she’s able to find work advertised for women, like a job as a waitress, that she’ll be sexually harassed with no recourse at all, since until Second Wavers coined the term, the notion of sexual harassment didn’t even exist.

It is the height of hypocrisy to enjoy the fruits of a liberation movement’s labour, fruits which those fighting for them didn’t actually get to fully enjoy themselves, and then turn around and revile that same liberation movement.

Good post Bickerin. I fear an entire generation of people (not just women) are lost in this woke-must say the right thing think the correct thought at all times-bubble. I chat to my niece (15) and younger nieces and cousins and luckily they think this stuff is bollocks.

Hi I'm new here. It's refreshing you can all discuss this subject on here without getting censored and banned like on certain sites..

Ummmmm ... having read this, I am now assuming that I must be a trans radfem despite technically being more of a GC libfem for all intents and purposes - except I don't identify with her characteristation of either.

Executive Summary: if the goal was to muddy the waters on questions of identity it's a "mission accomplished; stretch goal also achieved" from me.

What a load of word salad!

Daft me. It’s right at the top if the feminist page.

www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

What a load of bollocks. Just because a sentence has some grammatical structure to it, it doesn't give it meaning 'Sady'.

Thanks for the welcome @MrGsFancyNewVagina! Yes I just read those rules, thanks.

Wow, Sady Doyle wrote that piece? I'm amazed. It is so entirely witless, which is not a word I would have ever used for her writing even when I disagree with her.

Sady was responsible for one of my earliest peak trans moments, maybe a decade ago. She explained how she had learned and grown after a transwoman told her off for complaining about menstrual cramps, and she now realised she was extremely privileged to have menstrual cramps and she wouldn't complain about them any more.

It was Doyle's capitulation more than the insane entitled demand that rang an alarm bell for me, but at the time all I did was lose some respect for her, and forget about it.

I guess the thing is that these professional feminists have been capitulating to ever-escalating insane demands, one at a time, like frogs being boiled, while the rest of us were mostly oblivious to it.

And now the mainstream has become aware of what they believe and they're not getting whatever "wow, you visionary, please lead the rest of us c*s women as we all follow the transwomen into the fabulous genderless promised land" reactions they feel they are due. Instead the reaction is more like "okay weirdo, you've been indoctrinated into a patriarchal cult... hahahaha FEMINIST? haha haha I can't breathe." It must be injurious to the ego.