McKinnon discussed on Singletrackworld

[Cooroo]

Singletrackworld is a forum for mountain bikers. Many of whom are male. Not much sympathy for McKinnon here: singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rachel-mckinnon-defends-track-world-title/

Discussed not discusses in the title! Aargh.

That's some really good discussion:

• the distinction between DSDs and trans.
• the point that it is about women's boundaries being ignored again.
• the fact that people don't need operations to be considered 'another gender'.

Good to see it getting attention.

'This is an issue for women to decide. It is patronising in the least for men to be discussing let alone making decisions on who should be eligible to compete in the womens category.
'

Discuss it by all means chaps - and include in your discussions the makeup of most sporting bodies from the olympics down.

"Singletrackworld is a forum for mountain bikers. Many of whom are male."

Moast of them seem very clued up, but some seem to deliberately make stuff up to muddy the water (I wonder who does that regularly?).
There is one guy saying that Brigid Kosgei's new women's marathon record of 2h14m04s, is the 15th quickest of all time for men or women, which is an absolute pile of twaddle. The men's record has been broken 23 times since 1964, when Basil Heatley did 2h13m55s, so I reckon thousands of men have gone faster than the current, yet to be verified, women's marathon record.

"This is an issue for women to decide."

Whilst I completely agree with the theory behind that statement, the reality of the composition of sporting bodies, means that it will not happen.
Perhaps women have to organise a distinct and autonomous federation, then say only competitors with XX Chromosomes can take part.
The current IOC (which isn't going to change any time soon) seem incapable of making logical, fair decisions.

Are TRAs going to go after that site, then? (I already know the answer of course.)

Over 2,000 men have hit 2:12 or better for the marathon, a total of about 7,000 races. There are surely many thousands more who have times between 2:12 and 2:14.

Are TRAs going to go after that site, then?

Well we know they're here lots and therefore I think it's safe to assume they've seen this thread and can expect them to be invaded and/or sued for their wrongthink transphobia in 3.. 2..

Who's up for a game?

I did this earlier. Without checking the original, widely circulated photo (so you know I haven't over-egged the cropping):

Can anyone tell me which of the three riders is Rachel McKinnon?
Bonus points for reasoning.

Buzz

Are TRAs going to go after that site, then?

I'm on that site quite a lot, it has very strict moderation (I had a post removed from a discussion about mixed sex toilets ... I think because I wrote trans"woman" rather than transwoman).
The moderation is even-handed though. If TRAs turn up there I think they'll be modded away quickly.

It's a good site. Male dominated of course, and with a few 'woke bros', but generally good natured.

buzz 😂

Buzz such a simple and effective way of demonstrating the point

It’s the legs, as well as being about 20% bigger. There was a gallery exhibition locally a while ago of random people sitting on the same bench in a nearby city park. I asked my boys what they noticed was common to all the portraits. It took them a while because the subjects were very diverse, but eventually DS1 pointed out that every single woman and girl had their legs crossed to some degree and almost every single man had his legs open (the exceptions were men balancing little yappy dogs or babies/toddlers in their laps).

Yes, McKinnon should stop manspreading if they want to try and blend into an all-female line-up

👋 to single trackers

Buzz How effective - in the photo published in the papers, I only noticed the size difference, not the manspreading.

Manspreading, hilarious! FFS mate, you don't even look at how women carry themselves.

🤣

I've just read that Singletrackworld thread and it was a great read. Intelligent and thoughtful. Such a pleasure to see sportspeople thinking through issues - and such a change to see the issues being discussed without accusations of transphobia.

Lots of people are speaking up on Twitter. Quite a few men, eg. James Ellington.

Good to see

Well done that Sherpa!

It's patronising... for men to be discussing
Disagree. I'm so glad men are speaking up. We absolutely need their support and interest for this to gain momentum.

Reading through the comments, it's refreshing to see a lot of balanced debate but there's still a lot of 'that will never happen' or 'what if that did happen' being said about things that have happened and are happening.