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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Second Shelf books, at it again

130 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 21/10/2019 10:59

Compare and contrast:

The literary and journalism community in the UK is transphobic apparently. Yet TRAs are gloating over the death of a journalist.

She is very invested in this ideology.

Second Shelf books, at it again
Second Shelf books, at it again
OP posts:
DuMondeB · 21/10/2019 15:54

Fuck equality, feminism is about liberation

MrsSnippyPants · 21/10/2019 15:56

Do stick round Allison, you might learn something about actual feminism, rather than the wiffly waffly male inclusive kind you espouse.

OP posts:
eBooksAreBooks · 21/10/2019 15:59

If feminism is good for men it's probably not feminism.

Feminism is good for everyone.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 21/10/2019 16:00

What is all this 'my' feminism nonsense?

Feminism, like other words, has a meaning. It isn't up to any individual to unilaterally decide to change that meaning.

Feminism is the liberation of the female sex class. That's what it means. It obviously includes all women, even those who believe in disembodied gendered souls regardless of how they 'identify' so is inclusive of XX trans people. It equally obviously excludes all men, even those who believe in disembodied gendered souls regardless of how they 'identify' so is exclusive of XY trans people.

I don't know what you'd call a movement that is for women, but not those women and not men except those men but it certainly isn't feminism.

Maybe 'likeypinkyfluffythingsism' or something.

eBooksAreBooks · 21/10/2019 16:06

My favourite (fictional) bookstore. I wept a little when it finally succumbed.

Second Shelf books, at it again
Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:07

Robotically repeating phrases doesn't make them true. Also it's easier to sound like the voice of authority on your Twitter feed than it is on the Mumsnet FWR board. You'll have to have better arguments here.

Through feminism men lose their control over women, their exploitation of our domestic, physical, sexual and reproducitve labour. If all goes according to plan they will also lose control of the earth's land and resources that they stole from us and from the creatures of the planet.

You're a bookseller, go read some feminist books - start with Kate Millet and then Andrea Dworkin and Mary Daly then just work your way through the second wave. Think about what they're saying and why they are saying it. They started a revolution, maybe pay them some attention?

TalkingintheDark · 21/10/2019 16:10

Still wondering if you’re ever going to give me a straight answer to this, eBooks:

Are you now saying you disagree with the OED definition of feminism? The one you said you were fighting for?

eBooksAreBooks · 21/10/2019 16:13

if you’re ever going to give me a straight answer

I'm not renowned for my straight answers.

eBooksAreBooks · 21/10/2019 16:14

You're a bookseller, go read some feminist books - start with Kate Millet and then Andrea Dworkin and Mary Daly then just work your way through the second wave. Think about what they're saying and why they are saying it. They started a revolution, maybe pay them some attention?

And a tad condescending, no?

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:15

Have you read them?

eBooksAreBooks · 21/10/2019 16:18

Have you read them?

This is "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs" territory
Perhaps you could find a less patronising way to convince me?

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:21

It probably isn't and you probably haven't.

If you have I have read them no idea how they couldn't touch you and you could prefer libfem pablum.

I'm not trying to convince you, but if you're running a feminist bookshop you need to have read the literature.

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:22

should be "if you have read them I have no idea....."

eBooksAreBooks · 21/10/2019 16:23

I'm not sure why you equate "having read " with not having also read other compelling feminist texts.

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:27

I'm not following what you're saying there.

I'm asking have you read those authors. It's a simple yes/no. And if you have then yes, you'll be able to accuse me of teaching Granny to suck eggs. Or at least getting Granny to read a book about sucking eggs, whether she applies it is another matter.

The second wave started a women's revolution, women fighting for our freedom. Kate Millet's book was called "Sexual Politics" not "Gender Politics". It was by women for women. Bringing males in is anti-feminism.

eBooksAreBooks · 21/10/2019 16:31

I'm not following what you're saying there.

You really are digging a very deep hole there. But do carry on assuming that you need to educate me about feminist texts.

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:40

I'm assuming because you're demonstrating zero understanding of sexual politics, women as a sex class or men's oppression of women. Our female biology is central to that, and men's too, given that they uses their penises as weapons against us.

And I already said if you have read those authors, you'll have to explain how you could prefer wishy washy apolitical liberal feminism to actual women's liberation, the kind of politics that actually changes things for women.

There is a hole being dug here, but it's not by me.

DetroitDownHereWithTheRestOfUs · 21/10/2019 16:43

Meanwhile, in the real world, there are women whose lives are altered, very much for the worse, by your brand of feminism.

Down here with the rest of us, who do not have the luxury of owning bookshops, or including men in our feminism, for whom feminism is a real living breathing shield against the men who would hurt us, and the life breath of other women, who do not center men and sustain each other.

Down here, where men in shelters isn't an abstract concept to gain acceptance from the woke overlords, but a real visceral fear of adult male bodies in enclosed spaces, flash backs of rapes and beatings. In the real world women can't heal around men.

In the real world xy chromosomed humans are men, remain men, and retain male privilege. Hence the trans movement ensuring men take every single space from women.

I'ld love to have feminism be an abstract book to stroke in a cute shop. I'ld love to fetishize paper and ink and words. I don't have that class privilege.

Feminism is real. It matters. And I do judge you and your feminism which isn't feminism at all, and I find you compassionless and lacking, dick pleasing and man centering.

We were sold a huge lie by liberal feminism. Women are DIFFERENT to men. Equal but not the same.

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:44

Or maybe you've got a gender studies degree, LOL.

eBooksAreBooks · 21/10/2019 16:45

I'm assuming because you're demonstrating zero understanding of sexual politics, women as a sex class or men's oppression of women. Our female biology is central to that, and men's too, given that they uses their penises as weapons against us.

Yes, you're quite right, what a silly little woman I have been to be drawn to other constructs of feminism. I must tell all those other strong, determined women that we've been doing it wrong all this time.

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:45

Well said Detroit. Solidarity sister.

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:46

You haven't read those books have you? And you just can't bear to say it. What's stopping you?

WomenAreHumanBeings · 21/10/2019 16:47

Right, so asking if they've read something is patronising.
Deciding they aren't known for giving a straight answer, and using that as an excuse to not answer questions.
What hole is being dug exactly? Or is that another question you're too elusive to answer?
I don't even know what to say about sucking grandmothers egg territory, I've never heard anyone say that.

Are you really an American politician? You're ignoring all the points and off on a tangent.

LangCleg · 21/10/2019 16:51

Well said, Detroit.

But you know - what are the travails of women in the real world when one's concern is running a business that will gain the approval of the wokeing class, eh? Theory divorced from material reality - the province of the privileged.

Karabair · 21/10/2019 16:52

Asking a feminist bookseller if they've read the books is patronising because - isn't it obvious? - they've read all the books.

I think I'm supposed to be digging a hole because ebooks sees herself as an expert in feminism, although she wont' say why. I'm looking forward to the big reveal where I get to fall in.

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