Should transgender women be allowed to play women's sports?

[andyoldlabour]

Well, obviously we have pretty much one set of views on that, but this video from the US shows both sets of views, and intelligence wise I know which side I am supporting.

Yes, they will grow taller, unless given yet more drugs to arrest their height. I think that puberty blockers alone would have the same effect as actual castration in terms of growth, as the long bones would have more time to grow with no hormonal off switch . I will see if I can find any information on that.
Susie G’s child had surgery fairly early on, and needed treatment to arrest growth as was growing extremely tall.
Castrati were mocked in the streets as failures if they looked less than affluent. They were easy to recognise because of their height and physique. Thousands of boys were castrated to produce the tiny number of highly successful singers.

Trans cyclist Rachel McKinnon defends her right to race in women's competitions news.sky.com/story/trans-cyclist-rachel-mckinnon-defends-her-right-to-race-in-womens-competitions-11838131

Well, that was edifying, wasn't it.

Such a very civil and constructive addition to the debate here.

Thousands of boys were castrated to produce the tiny number of highly successful singers.

God, that's horrific.

Although no more horrific than being castrated because you're not masculine enough.

No. No no no no no no no.

From the web, here www.ranker.com/list/disturbing-castrati-facts/jen-jeffers

Also they were notoriously emotionally volatile, which I wonder about. Presented as a “theatrical temperament “, it might also have been a consequence of not going through puberty, and the brain not maturing as it should have done.

, it might also have been a consequence of not going through puberty, and the brain not maturing as it should have done.

Well yes. It's always struck me, with the women who have taken testosterone and puberty blockers, how childlike they appear. Almost a naivete that is deeply worrying.

But I'm guessing if you chemically stunt growth, what can you expect?

Almost a naïveté that is deeply worrying

Well yes, because as dreadful and horrific that physical damage can be, not minimising it btw. Puberty also is important for cognitive growth. They do say full cognitive ability isn't achieved until approx 25.

I could say more, but then I'd be banned.

Toffeeapple24 Transwomen are women
Did you actually type this with a straight face? You know full well they aren't women. You can't transition into being a woman, just as you can't transition into being a man. You can only mature - girl to woman, boy to man.

No.
But they will continue to be accepted until female contestants start rejecting second and third place prizes publicly, or refuse to play in teams or against teams which include trans women.

You can SAY Transwomen are Women and you can say Transmen are Men. Toffeeapple24
Doesn't make it true though, does it? Just makes you sound unhinged

The castrati were used because of the Church of Rome's interpretation of certain Bible verses:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches,” (I Corinthians 14:34), and “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over men, but to be in silence.” (I Timothy 2:11-12).

In other words, ensure the silence and non-participation of women by using physically modified men instead. Sounds familiar...

wrt the question in the thread title

No

If 'Transwomen are women,' there must be a working objective definition of a woman that accomodates this claim. Circularities don't count.

Saussure would say a 'woman' is the word that denotes the thing that has the essential quality of woman-ness.

What is this quality and how can it be measured?

Going back a few pages regarding a post about how many trans women are killed.

If trans women are women then you cannot separate the small number of trans women being killed out from the large number of women being killed each year.

You cannot have it both ways

Absolutely not , they are still male , still sportsmen , still naturally stronger and will never be sports women

Wrt thread title, no.

get this, trans women are women whether you agree with it or not.

Get this, no amount of screeching or stamping your feet will make this true.

You cannot compel my thoughts or speech. Die gedanken sind frei.

Was on the phone when RM was given a lot of time on BBC News earlier and was thankful the sound was off. There no no way he should have had so much more time than any woman ...

.... the thing that has the essential quality of woman-ness. What is this quality and how can it be measured?

Great question.

Woman-ness = adult human female-ness.

Here are some things which do NOT define woman-ness:

Dresses, shoes or makeup
Y chromosomes
Self-identifying as a woman
Being biologically male (even if you had surgery or took hormones, you are still genetically male, with a Y chromosome)

No

No. I feel so sad. I may as well tell my daughter not to bother with sport. The future is bleak.

I think sports categories should be based on biological sex (determined by chromosomes) rather than gender.

'Trans women do not have the biological disadvantages that women do when compared to men.'

Just catching up. This phrasing makes me uncomfortable. We are not substandard or lesser. We are different. There are things that we are better than men at. Turns out of you make the race days long, women start to win. Endurance.
Sports were set up by men for men to showcase the things men are good at. We don't know what popular competition would look like if the world had always been run by women.

We are different, not lesser. And nothing outside of star trek can actually turn male to female or vice versa.

The idea that women in the uk saying its not right for men to compete against women on their say so are responsible for abusive men killing their partners, ex partners etc 1000s of miles away is ridiculous. And also handily casts aside the massive death toll of women through the same reasons.

Toffee - the murder of anyone is a tragedy and a terrible crime and this includes anyone who is trans. But sadly in the US the murder rate is high, particularly by guns. What is the murder rate for trans people and what is the murder rate for the general population? In the U.K. Channel 4 looked at the stats and a trans person is half as likely to be murdered as a member of the general population. This is not to trivialise any murder but to put it in context.