Should transgender women be allowed to play women's sports?

[andyoldlabour]

Well, obviously we have pretty much one set of views on that, but this video from the US shows both sets of views, and intelligence wise I know which side I am supporting.

toffeeapple24 is bigoted towards women who hold a different opinion.

Trans women are not of the female sex, therefore they should not be allowed to compete in sports that are segregated on the basis of sex.

I compete in single sex and mixed sex sports - rowing and touch rugby. There are all sorts of reasons why sports are segregated by sex, and why mixed sex sports have different rules to single sex sports.

None of you seem to be able to get the difference between sex and gender.

Absolutely get it.
And the one to use as a divider for physical, medical and privacy issues is sex, not gender.

'Gender' has no boundaries and is not a sensible way to split a population.

Trans women are not of the female sex, therefore they should not be allowed to compete in sports that are segregated on the basis of sex

This is so completely obvious, I can't grasp why anyone would argue otherwise.

Incidentally, I want to watch sports to see people being the very best they can be through nature and hard training, not artificially hampered or hormonally enhanced.

Also, a transwoman being murdered by their partner in Brazil, means women shouldn't have any sport??

None of you seem to be able to get the difference between sex and gender.

Really? Please do enlighten us. In particular with reference to how 'gender' rather than sex should be relevant when deciding which category an athlete should compete in.

However, this vile spew of hatred causes violence against the trans community.

I keep noticing people defining other people disagreeing or simply not liking them as a form of 'hatred' lately. Clearly used by people who have never been on the receiving end of genuine hatred to bander it about so casually.

I'll tell you an example of hatred: Attempts to blot out womens hard won sporting achievements by people with physical advantages conferred by their male biology demanding they infiltrate their sports - then having the gall to insist they shut up and get used to losing. That's hatred.

People with male physiology insisting on infiltrating womens spaces then telling them to shut the fuck up and accept feeling unsafe. That's working hatred.

And since you brought intersectionality into it, as a black woman I'm disadvantaged enough thank you. I don't want (what turns out to be majority white but any) men telling me they have a right to enter my changing rooms and prevent me from taking part and winning in sport. But that's what's happening. Hatred? Tell me about it!

Transwomen are men. Man = adult human male. Men have Y chromosomes and male physiology. They can wear what they consider to be 'women's' clothes and behave in ways they believe to typify women. Each to their own. But the sex of a transwoman is male, from conception onwards, for their whole life.

SirVixofVixHall

Transgender woman is the same as transwoman - a male bodied person.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_woman

I think some women are hard wired, because of their upbringing, who knows? to put men first at any opportunity. Being an 'ally' for transwomen is just a way for them to do that and be applauded for it. Sad really.

It would be good to have some more sports clubs which are mixed sex, physical activity holds so many benefits for everyone in terms of mental and physical health, community engagement, body confidence and so on.
That would be a great project to work on - more sports provision for all, and making mens sports more welcoming and inclusive for everyone. Then we could maintain women's sports as sex-specific to ensure that women aren't disadvantaged against, endangered and sidelined.

"vile spew of hatred"

Discussing matters in an informed, intelligent way.
Biology is such a "hateful" science.

toffeeapple24 you are of course correct it is straight white men who are a danger to women and after their rights.

No transwomen should compete against women, it is not a level playing field.

Don't need to watch a video to know the answer to this, OP.

Yes Op, i know that it is used to mean that, but that has been a deliberate tactic to persuade people that males are actual women. Eg Tall women, short women, transgender women.....
Whereas in reality a transgender woman is a

Interesting point re castrati , above. Castrati had a unique sound due to the combination of a very long ribcage, as castrated mammals grow taller than they would otherwise have done, if castrated before puberty. The deep, long ribs, and large lung capacity combined with immature vocal folds and an adult face, produce the sound of a castrato, where he will not sound like a boy, due to the large lungs, or a man, due to the voice not having “dropped”, or like a woman, because women have smaller ribs and a smaller chest capacity, combined with a smaller face and jaw, so smaller resonators.
Castrated men are nothing like women, physiologically. So a boy given puberty blockers, and then castrated , will still have advantages over a woman, especially in something where long limbs and large lungs are an advantage, which is almost all sport.
As a singer, I find it interesting yet terrible to think that we will surely hear a castrato voice again, due to the numbers of children given puberty blockers now.

Hmm.. the end of my sentence disappeared !
Should read “a transgender woman is a transman”.... !!

And another bigot flounces because they can't answer a question about the short mantra that they can only parrot.

Transwomen are male, whether they believe in gendered souls or not and male people should not be participating in women's sports. It's absurd that this even needs saying.

Just seen a photo of a group wearing a T-shirt (each has their own) saying ‘trans men are men’.

Now. Women definition T-shirt’s are supposedly hatred. As are the ‘hands off my rights’ ones and any regarding lesbians and attraction. But these are ok.

Right, back on topic. List of women who have been denied or damaged by biological males competing in their sports (does not include all the names of women further down from knock on effect, sorry to those):

Selina Soule and others (Yearwood and Miller)

Feagaiga Stowers and Iuniana Sipaia (Laurel Hubbard)

Melissa Bishop, Joanna Jozwik, Lynsey Sharp (Rio Olympics 800m)

Naomi Lovesay and Kirsten Herup Sovang (McKinnon)

Tamikka Brents (Fallon Fox)

The nameless women who didn’t get a starting spot while Hannah Mouncey was playing AFL and handball, and those who have to oppose Mouncey in a contact sport

The nameless women who don’t get a starting spot while Kelly Morgan plays rugby in South Wales, and those who have to oppose Morgan in a contact sport

The nameless women who don’t get a starting spot for Kent while Maxine Blethyn plays cricket, and those who have to bowl to Blethyn and be smashed over the shortened boundaries

The women who were beaten by Kate Weatherly in mountain biking just weeks after Weatherly switched from the men’s race.

These women matter. So don’t come on here and say “it’s not that many” or “how does it affect you?” It affects me because I care about how it affects all these women and girls.

SirVixofVixHall

So the boys who have surgery as soon as possible, in order to transition to female successfully, will actually grow taller than their non-transitioning counterparts?

Does castrated mean the surgery, or does it mean not going through puberty because of hormone blockers?

I mean in terms of growing taller

Does castrated mean the surgery, or does it mean not going through puberty because of hormone blockers?

I doubt there's data on that as yet - if it's ever collected at all.

Kelly Holmes: Short-haired, rather 'butch' army PE Instructor. Sex: Female.

John Curry: Softly-spoken and heavily effeminate skater and balletic Nureyevesque genius of the ice. Sex: Male.

In both cases, gender irrelevant.