Second Shelf London

[lionheart]

Anyone been watching this drama played out on the Twitter?

jaded millennial
@MillennialJaded

'A women’s bookshop I was interested in visiting is now openly ‘anti terf’ & they publically shamed someone they were following for tweeting an article on sport & trans. FFS this climate is chilling',

A little snippet from the shop itself (one of many on the issue):

'The Second Shelf
@secondshelfbks
·
19h

'We want to be clear, we are uninterested in the transexclusionary feminist position! We understand there is discomfort w/ the acronym TERF. But this seems to be because the negative connotations don’t sit well with the position holder? Maybe it’s evidence of a terrible stance?'

affect

Mumsnet: policing people’s genitals and the grammar all in one place 💫

Is that it? How disappointing. I thought you were going to show me all the peer reviewed evidence, etc.

Btw, the original name was T wasn’t added to the LGB until 1990, which you should know, with all your ‘knowledge and research’.

We don’t actually need to look at the genitals to know whether what stands before us is male or female. It isn’t just the genitals that give the game away.

• Btw, the T wasn’t added to the LGB...

We don’t actually need to look at the genitals to know whether what stands before us is male or female. It isn’t just the genitals that give the game away.

But ‘science’, Charleston! 😁

What are the wee twirly star things in all the posts meant to be

I’m amused that you think having reservations about the wilder excesses of trans activism is a result of a lack of education or thinking on such matters. I was a complete trans ally until I actually listened and understood what was being asked of me, at which point I read everything I could lay my hands on, from both sides of the debate. The intellectual poverty, mendacity and authoritarianism of much of the writing from trans activists doesn’t do it for me, and I’ve read plenty.

Your wokescolding won’t work on me, because I can’t be shamed out of my position of centring and prioritising women and girls. It’s not shameful to me to be concerned about medical experimentation on children, or the erosion of women’s sports, or the vulnerability of women in prison. Or, indeed, that a feminist bookshop wants to scold women for not being sufficiently respectful to male feelings.

You’re half way there!!! You’ve almost accepted that gender is a social construct! Believing someone can “call themselves by whichever name they chose” is very nearly close to “whatever gender identity they choose

Wow, the condescension is strong here. You clearly don’t know that Mumsnetters largely recognise that gender is a social construct. A set of harmful stereotypes that have held women back. We don’t care how someone presents themselves. We don’t care if a man dresses in a stereotypically female way.

Biology is real. Our life experiences are rooted in biology. Mind cannot conquer matter, no matter how we might wish otherwise.

Biological men do not belong in women’s bathrooms, changing rooms or sports. Do you think a mediocre bio man should be at the top of the podium for women’s sports?

Because it’s happening.

Objections to the word Terf are nothinh to do with negativity and everything to with factual innacuracy and the fact that IT'S NOT HOW WE IDENTIFY, YOU BUNCH OF IDENTITY-OBSESSED MUPPETS!!!!!

As I said I am straight and cs so can only define my understanding, to me, lesbianism is to the PERSON and the gender roles ect they take on not the genitals.*

And I’m a lesbian who fought Section 28, used to volunteer for Stonewall in the days when they were still about the LGB and was walking in Pride marches since before you were born. Your views on our sexuality are ignorant, misogynist and homophobic.

By the way, you can say fuck here as many times as you want but c*s is offensive to women who reject gender as a misogynist collection of stereotypes.

hope that you never have to support trans or LGBTQ children

I hope you never have a child with gender dysphoria. They usually grow up to be normal gay and lesbian adults.

But no, let’s tell them they are actually a member of the opposite sex, destroy their capacity to have a normal sex life, potentially destroy their chance to have a family, and lower their IQ while you are at it.

This is how Iran deals with gay people by the way. They are forced to become the ‘opposite sex’ because of homophobia. Don’t think it won’t happen here.

Very well said @MangoFeverDream

what started as criticsm about a bookshop who sells women, ALL women (which tbh wtf does that have to do with motherhood anyway?)
Quite. What do reproductive rights or issues have to do with women?
I mean other than abortion rights, losing your job or being sidelined due to pregnancy, the massive pay drop after having children that doesn't affect men, maternal medicine and mortality rates, the vaginal mesh scandal, the additional burden taken by women of childcare, the reduced medical research into endometriosis and other uterine issues, the 'husband' stitch, hormonal contraception health issues...
I mean besides all that, obviously motherhood has nothing to do with being a woman.
Such a shame we dont have a word for that particular sex class since they have so many issues that they are discriminated against for.
We really should come up with something? And maybe also for the fight against discrimination?
Such a pity that 'woman' and 'feminism' cant include those anymore since it would be exclusionary of those who dont face those issues.
Such a pity.
FFS

Shut up nd buy from them or leave them and their business model alone xo

But we’re not allowed to buy from them?

I’ve just got a full house on my TRA bingo! Thanks FlxwerPxwer. 💫💫

Wow, those objections were all over the place. And no rational argument amongst them.

What an unpleasant and ill-informed car crash that poster is but Soldiers how come you have those weird star things? Nothing like that on my phone (yes, envy).

Doyoumind Found it on my iPhone. 💫💫⚡️✨🌟⭐️

Ooh. I'm an Android 😔

💫 I've got this on my android. 💫

Can I still be a terven witch if my feminism includes transmen? Because they’re female and need the same access to women’s healthcare etc as other women.

Wow. Lack of critical thinking!

LGB is about who you love, which sex you are attracted to. Sexual orientation.

T is about not being happy in your own body and sex. It's a body perception issue.

The two things are completely different.

How on earth it's "phobic" to say this I cannot fathom.

Yes neuro

Sums it up really

I wonder how many books on pregnancy and child raising they have for women? I’m going to guess none.