MNHQ make a statement on Twitter re FWR

[GirlDownUnder]

mobile.twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1182615292813467648

Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with minority communities. We don’t tolerate transphobic comments and will delete any when they are flagged to us. But we do also believe strongly in free speech. 1/3

The discussion of gender self-id and what that might mean for very hard-won women’s rights, as well as the rapidly growing number of children exploring gender identity issues, is contentious. 2/3

We know some people would like us to simply censor this entire debate but a similar number think we censor too much. We’re committed to allowing respectful discussion of an issue that is of particular interest to parents. 3/3

The usual suspects pile on, but I think the ratios look very good.

MNHQ

They are so desperate to not only have the feminist boards shut down but also make MNHQ ban all forms of discussion on the issue.

They just cannot bear the fact that woman say no.

Thanks MNHQ and hello to new visitors!

I don't really care how someone chooses to dress, or what makeup or tattoos people want. As a feminist, I've always fought against gender stereotypes and I believe they are harmful to men as well as women. But women are not men without a penis, or people who don't feel like a male.

I totally understand not identifying with one's sex. I've never felt like a woman, or identified as one and I don't understand what that means. But that doesn't mean I'm a man.

Apparently, this is an extreme position these days.

Say no and continue to say NO!

Thank you Mumsnet. I've thanked you on your Twitter thread too as I couldn't be quiet in the face of blatant lies about what goes on here. I could scream in frustration at the picture that is painted of this place. How dare they imply that we're some sort of hive mind, hating on poor defenceless children and delicate 'grown-ups'. As if we're coming from a position of strength and superiority when most of us have to navigate the downsides of being born female every fucking day of our lives.

I actually think my mental health is being negatively affected by not being able to speak freely in the 'outside world' about it but it's too important to file away and ignore. I'm a left-wing, working class, lapsed Catholic of Irish descent. I too am eagerly awaiting some money to come my way from 'the right wing' organisations that allegedly 'fund' my free-thinking brain. Such lazy, ill-informed, clogged up thinking. Keep up the good fight MN. I need you now more than I even needed you when I was on here over 10 years ago seeking early-hours advice on my poor, cracked nipples

Thanks MNHQ

I don't post often on here (and name change a lot anyway) but want to add my support.

I don’t know if I want to say thank you, because standing up for women and free speech is what you should be doing by default, so I’ll say well done. Well done for telling TRAs and their handmaiden foot soldiers to do one.

Reply from MN

I flagged this thread earlier, MN say...

Ah, thanks very much for flagging this thread. We're working really hard to allow these conversations to take place and it's just lovely to see all this support.

Thank you,
Jo
MNHQ

Nice work MNHQ.

I don’t know if I want to say thank you, because standing up for women and free speech is what you should be doing by default

Yes, it says a great deal about what is not allowed elsewhere and the attitude of TRAs, when it’s considered we all have to be grateful to MN for allowing us to freely state such things as the material reality of biology and concerns around children being given evidence-lacking permanently body-altering hormones. Not knocking MNHQ by this. I mean it’s like this:

Us: “Hey MNHQ, can we discuss hormone treatment for kids and how it’s so concerning it was the lead story for last week’s British Medical Journal?”

MNHQ: “Sure, why would we want to stop that? That sounds like a very important topic currently.”

Trans Twittersphere: “TRANSPHOBIC! Silence the witches!! Don’t give them any more money, company that makes artificial spread!”

Anyone who’s not an idiot: “”

Just adding more thanks. It's good to see new posters and delurkers joining. I wonder how many more active users MN will get from this? And how well those margarine sales are going?

Thank you one and all MNHQ.

It's all pretty simple, isn't it? Mumsnet is a place where women gather to discuss issues that are important to them. For the most part the women on FWR are highly intelligent, well-educated professionals - in other words, the kind of women that misogynists feel most threatened by. Of course they want to shut us down. Of course they hate the fact that we are allowed to express opinions that distinguish us from doormats.

That's all utterly predictable. The only depressing thing is that there are people running organisations like Flora who are so fucking stupid that they are taken in by the "poor little me being persecuted by the transphobes" act of the men's rights activists. I wonder how it feels to be that thick. It must hurt.

@MNHQ another one saying thank you.
I normally lurk on FWR rather than actively post- that doesn't mean I'm not grateful.

They saw us making Aunt Lydia jokes and decided to "no u" it back. Doesn't work because they don't understand what we meant in the first place (and also comes across as childish and petulant).

That's basically their entire debating strategy summarised. They don't care how absurd it sounds to people not involved in it.

Thank you mumsnet. I would tweet my support but I don't wish to loose my job and career.

Anything based on queer theory inevitably is. If you base your politics on every individual's personal sense of self, then only those individuals who possess sufficient structural privilege and power will be able to impose that personal sense of self on others.

Bolding Lang's brilliant comment.

I don’t know if I want to say thank you, because standing up for women and free speech is what you should be doing by default

Well, yeah, I agree but, while that’s great in principle, reality dictates that a little has to be given in order for a little to be gotten. We honestly have very few other options re being able to discuss these topics at all elsewhere on the internet, where mostly it’s considered safest to say nothing, so I do thank MNHQ for standing by the posters on FWR and allowing these conversations to happen.

Another mostly lurker who wants to thank Mumsnet for providing a space where women can talk to each other about these really important issues. I'm only on Mumsnet because of FWR, so many thanks also to the wise and witty posters who have taught me so much over the last year.

Thank you MN. For standing strong against the storm. I support your values regarding free speech wholeheartedly.

Just copying over the mumsnet statement from the AIBU thread:

It's disappointing that Flora have bowed to pressure from a handful of activists on Twitter - particularly as Flora didn't raise any objections to any actual content currently on the Mumsnet site. 

We can see why an advertiser might want to avoid controversy but it's crystal clear from the sheer volume of discussions about this topic that parents need a place online to discuss these complex issues around gender self-id and the rapidly growing number of children presenting as gender dysmorphic. 

We feel it's the right thing to do to facilitate that debate (whilst ensuring it remains respectful) even though some would wish to censor it. Mumsnet has turned down hundreds of thousands of pounds of advertising over the years from companies which we feel don't make parents' lives easier, so we're well-used to putting purpose before profit. 

I do think in the end consumers will value companies which show a bit of backbone

So pleased Mumsnet is standing strong over this. Should generate a bit more publicity tomorrow.

I actually think my mental health is being negatively affected by not being able to speak freely in the 'outside world' about it but it's too important to file away and ignore

ditto

Thanks Mumsnet, for creating a place that allows me to feel safe to have opinions and discussions

Thanks Campervan69

That’s also an excellent message from MNHQ.

I do hope Flora make any revenue losses from all the hundreds of TRA supporters who do the family shopping. I’m sure they’ll be fine...

Just to say thanks to MNHQ. Have only been on a year and have found some "rules" a bit odd, but the importance of a space being provided for women to be openly able to share and discuss women's rights is vital.

And the spaces seem to be getting fewer and fewer.

And maybe on another thread as MNHQ has said a few tweets (twats as I seem them) are not the basis for decision making, and somehow someone needs to burst the bubble of twitter power.

First of it is one of the least subscriber to social media platforms. Secondly it is known for its anti woman stance. But because mainstream media over emphasises its importance too many people and companies take the easy way out and give in to a few unrepresentative bullies.

I've just done as another poster on the other thread suggested and turned my adblocker off for MN. Don't know how much it'll help really as I'm not likely to click on any but you never know...

Mumsnet has turned down hundreds of thousands of pounds of advertising over the years from companies which we feel don't make parents' lives easier, so we're well-used to putting purpose before profit.

Thank you.