Astonishing thread from Jane Fae, Darvo at its finest.

[SunsetBeetch]

I think Jane may be unhappy about something or other. Can't think what /s

All the classics are there: right wing funding, denyong people's existence...

As a procession of journalists/not-journalists continue to shill unashamedly, unquestioningly for the gender crits, a pattern, some background that the former seem blithely ignorant of.

A thread.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180766181885698050?s=19

They – the gender crits – declared they only wanted to talk, while setting up a batch of pseudo-organisations and so-called charity platforms, little more than social media groups, that blatantly excluded mainstream trans voices.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180766498249465857?s=19

They – the gender crits – said it was all about the Gender Recognition Act and women's concerns....while their leading lights talked openly about removing ALL rights from trans people and driving us out of existence - and journalists/not-journalists said nothing.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180766702352654337?s=19

They – the gender crits – caricatured any GRA changes as ushering in an armageddon for women, while seemingly unaware, ignorant, or lying that the changes proposed did nothing to affect rights trans people had exercised for decades, with no problem.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180766856250044416?s=19

They – the gender crits – happily scooped up hundreds of thousands in funding, including significant donations from far right Christian fundamentalists with an anti-woman agenda, while claiming it was all about defending women.

And journalists/not-journalists said nothing.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180767075989643264?s=19

They – the gender crits – set out on a campaign of publicity stunts designed to exclude trans people from public spaces, while journalists/not-journalists treated it all as a bit of a lark.

A thing to debate politely in two minute set piece televised confrontations.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180767308576374785?s=19

They – the gender crits – paint trans women as sexual deviants, while erasing the validity of trans men and non-binary existence.

Publicly, they endorsed a campaign that incited taxi drivers and bikers to use violence against trans people. Because they only wanted to talk.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180767618074058752?s=19

They – the gender crits – set about invading any and every trans space, intimidating trans folk, denying trans people the safety they demand for themselves.

But it was only about women's concerns.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180767830712705024?s=19

They – the gender crits – initiated a co-ordinated campaign to make it harder/impossible for young trans and gender questioning people to get support in schools. And journalists/ not-journalists said it was just another debate.

twitter.com/JaneFae/status/1180768181163610112?s=19

The assumption that religious = right wing is an interesting one.

Tends to originate from left-wing antitheists, in my experience. Yes I am looking at you, dad.

None of the openly Christian people I know are politically far right. A fair few of them are actually rabidly pro-Corbyn. I still get annoyed at the antitheists who tried to instil prejudice against them in me. Being religious doesn't automatically make someone a self-serving dick.

I've always wondered how people who assume that Christian = rabidly right wing fit Quakers into their worldview. Does he cognitive dissonance not give them migraines?

Can we not mention when someone makes us feel fear or revulsion , and sets our “danger” sensors tingling ? I assume I have those feelings about various people for good reason.
I tell my daughters not to ignore those feelings.. yet, deletion.

I think it is another example of taking a US centred world view and wrongly applying it to other cultures. Though to be honest I'm not sure it really holds up even in the US context, I suspect that in itself is a rather superficial reading based on half understood concepts of the Christian Right.

Worth adding to the thread about the concept of civility and moderation that I started a while back possibly? I see nothing civil about deleting regulars who are attempting to discuss the reasons why a specific person sets their danger sensors off. Encouraging women to stifle their fears aids constructive debate, does it?

SirVix presumably mentioning that you get creepy as hell danger vibes off a man is terribly mean and unfair and tarnishing their reputation. We're not allowed to acknowledge, speak about, or act on our self-preservation instincts lest we hurt anyone's feelings, remember?

God forbid women might share their concerns with other women in the hope that women may be safer. On a feminist board of all places. Tsk.

Well, I think Vix should ask that her comment be reinstated. If women can't discuss the danger sensors and the reasons why a particular person sets them off in a feminist space then that space is in fact anti-feminist.

My Dad ( not a quaker, but very supportive of Quakers ) was a committed Christian whose faith gave him strength throughout a horrible illness. He was , like most gently Christian people in Britain of his generation, not remotely right wing.
The Quakers are so interesting, many of them having moved to America to escape religious persecution here, were horrified by slavery and then campaigned strongly for its abolition, both in America and in the UK, where some wealthy land owners also made money from slave plantations in the Caribbean. The Quakers also fought for equality for women, for girls to be educated to the same level as boys.

I don't share their faith but have never for a moment doubted that for the most part they're fundamentally good people. There's something wrong with any political theory that can't distinguish between Quakers and, say, Quiverfull.

I'm an atheist. My family have been atheists for generations. In my atheist experience religious people run the full political gamut from very left wing to very right wing. Just like everyone else.

It should of course be remembered that political parties have associations with religious groups and the Republican/Christian Right association in the US is an example of this, but so is the Labour Party's association with Catholicism here.

On the creepy feelings...I was at a women’s event recently and suddenly the hairs on the back of my neck stood up and I started to feel really creeped out and in fact scared. I couldn’t work out why until I looked around and realised the woman standing behind me who I hadn’t really visually registered was clearly not AFAB. I was actually horrified with myself that I had reacted in such a strong visceral way without even seeing her properly. But I couldn’t help that fear. It came from nowhere.

And post questioning the deletions are being deleted too! Come on now, MNHQ, this is ridiculous. Mods can be wrong and their decisions should not be above criticism.

You have a number of different women here saying that they find Fae frightening. Are they all required to shut up in order to satisfy some sort of odd idea of politeness? Do you think they're wrong, or just "rude"?

Knew I had seen something somewhere
Fascinating thread and I was on it
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers?pg=12

Important question that may well deserve a thread of its own - is fear uncivil? Are women required for the sake of kindness/politeness/fostering "civil debate" to pretend that there is no trans activist anywhere who they find frightening?

If so, please explain how this can possibly be considered in any way feminist.

@ WorkingItOutAsIGo - yes. I think women are hotwired to notice things like that.

I was recently in a city who has a hospital/doctors that comes up in research and treatments for this area of medecine.

My spidey senses ‘pinged’ as some people walked by (a handful bit hundreds) when I looked (because you do) I noticed (mostly) m2f - the vast majority were older people, dressed conservatively, makeup/jewellery/nails like my mum really, poddling along window shopping, chatting with friends, getting groceries (so not like the teens/young adults I see around my office making a very large production about ‘I‘M WEARING A SEQUIN MINI DRESS LOOKIT ME!’). I didn’t feel in any way threatened or uneasy. These were people just going about their business but - you know how something just catches your eye? Maybe the way someone walks or holds themselves?

It must be some sense you have to notice the ‘different’.

I was actually horrified with myself that I had reacted in such a strong visceral way without even seeing her properly

Don't be, that visceral reaction exists for a reason. It is what keeps us safe. The idea that we should be socialised out of this is what is horrifying.

Basic pattern recognition is what it is, Fekko. Anything unusual for the context catches your eye because your brain doesn't immediately dismiss it as the same old boring non-threatening stuff you were expecting to see and it prompts you to take a closer look.

If we didn't have this skill we'd have gone extinct a very very long time ago.

Which is also why it's horrifying to see comments describing that visceral reaction being deleted.

Did you get a deletion message, Vix? Are we even being told why those comments are deemed unacceptable? Because I hate to bang on about it but this is actually kind of important. Trying to socialize women out of respecting, expressing, or acting on those impulses puts us in danger.

NOT FUCKING IMPRESSED.

MNHQ - what are you thinking? Apology in order, methinks.

I have updated the "Civility" thread with this atrocious decision.

The trans people I have met (I'm not going to say I know them well, though one is the child of a friend who definitely is a friend in their own right) have never raised any fear reactions in me as part of their own being. I have been afraid of 'getting things wrong' in language terms.

I have had some mental discomfort, which I do class as pure transphobia, to be combatted and which i separate from my political views.

I have come across a woman and men who HAVE elicited that fear reaction. The woman was a past neighbour of mine, god she was terrifying.

In other words, if JF seems intimidating, it's not the female/gender divergent presentation that causes that per se IMO. Some people are frightening and that is a response to be respected. I certainly usually find males are more likely to elicit that reaction in me.

I will add that I would be afraid of anyone advocating the things Fae has a history of advocating for and find their attempts to steer both law and organizational practices deeply sinister regardless of how they identify.

Many people here have daughters, and I assume some on the mod team do too. You really don't find someone fighting to keep torture porn legal and lower the age at which people can participate in porn to 16 a bit sinister? Honestly, in your heart of hearts?

Even if you don't other women should be able to say that we do.

I haven’t had a message yet. Will check again in a sec.

There is a message in my inbox, but no content. I will wait a bit and see if something loads, and if not I will contact MNHQ.

Trying to socialize women out of respecting, expressing, or acting on those impulses puts us in danger

Hence "gossip" being a) associated with women and b) characterised as negative and unacceptable behaviour.

There's one bloke I know (who doesn't identify as female) who gives me creepy as shit vibes. I find my heart's racing and I'm on high alert whenever I'm in his presence, meeting his eyes makes my stomach lurch, seeing him interact with children makes me feel panicky, and I won't let my daughter anywhere near him. Don't trust him, couldn't tell you why - but I sure as shit told the parent of a child I know he has regular, potentially unsupervised access to that something about that man screams "danger" to me.

It's survival behaviour evolved in response to us being preyed upon repeatedly. Who benefits from us not being permitted to engage in it?