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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Interesting hypocrisy from the TRAs

145 replies

Pota2 · 06/10/2019 08:59

twitter.com/joss_prior/status/1180592610894700547?s=20

See, I naively thought that medical transition wasn’t a requirement, that it was literal violence to point that out in the case of Lily Madigan. But apparently it seems you do have to medically transition- otherwise you’re just a faker and a bullshitter. Well, if you were born female, in any event.

Meanwhile Lily lands women’s officer job without a single hormone taken.

OP posts:
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CatalogueUniverse · 06/10/2019 20:12

The fact that they think any money must have come from large orgs generally run by men is rather telling.

Um the 2nd wave feminists that fought for maternity rights, equal pay, equality at work and all the other legislation that forced the world to treat women as people means we have our own money.

We still don’t have as much of it as men but we can spend it where we want.

And in all seriousness, what did they expect from the women who lived through second wave feminism or benefited from it?

We have been kicking back at gender norms and being penalised for being female since birth. We’ve lived through AIDS and homophobia. We’ve brought our children up to believe that girls and boys can be gentle, fierce, can cry, be angry, lead. Grow up to be doctors, lawyers, nurses, teachers, hairdressers, make up artists, fire officers, police officers. That pink and blue are just colours, hair short or long is meaningless, make up is for everyone, housework is for everyone, childcare is for everyone. Gay, straight, Bi is irrelevant, they are loved.

Then they came for our children and told them that if they like “girl” or “boy” things they could have been born in the wrong body. The way to fix this is puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and invasive surgery.

Did they really expect us to do nothing?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/10/2019 20:15

Men often underestimate how protective women feel towards children, and towards each other. In this case that may yet be what brings them down.

BeMoreMagdalen · 06/10/2019 20:25

Goddess yes. They underestimate us at every turn, because their reliance on keeping us afraid and disparately unconnected has been the only tactic for a long time. They think intimidation will pay dividends, but honestly I know hardly any woman who puts up with that long term. Eventually we all push back against the bullies, especially if you threaten our kids and sisters. And they do threaten our kids, and as we can see on twitter right now, they openly threaten women.

DuMondeB · 06/10/2019 20:30

Yes. It’s interesting that the topics that make them the angriest are detransitioners and transwidows - the people that have seen it all up close and personal and rejected it.

They routinely dismiss critics by saying they’ve probably never even met a trans person, yet clearly, detransitioners and transwidows expose that as utter nonsense.

Next stage: narc rage.

BeMoreMagdalen · 06/10/2019 20:38

Parents who are not doing the affirming route are also a big target, too. Because yes, the more they can keep 'trans' as an indefinable inner essence of genderwoo, the better it functions as a bludgeoning tool of control. It's precisely because genderwoo can't stand up to the slightest scrutiny that they vent so much ire against the people who are able to speak clearly about reality.

NeurotrashWarrior · 06/10/2019 20:39

*Men often underestimate how protective women feel towards children, and towards each other.i

Fun biology fact; mothers' brains physically change during and after pregnancy. Iirc the main changes last for a couple of years.

So if we are talking about brain scans etc, you can't 'identify' out of being a mother if you gave birth.

It doesn't make that mother suddenly better at changing nappies or prams on mumsnet; it's to do with empathy for the child and I'd bet an ability to survive on naps plus biological changes linked to breastfeeding, hormones etc. And a fierce protective drive.

Some brain changes can occur to other care givers; the more care a father does impacts their brain too.

Of course none of this makes you 'feel' woman or man (most generally identify as tired) nor require a dress code beyond feeding bras. Which is why the quote below about transsexual being a constructed concept is so bang on.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 06/10/2019 20:42

They routinely dismiss critics by saying they’ve probably never even met a trans person, yet clearly, detransitioners and transwidows expose that as utter nonsense.

We can add children of transitioners to that list now too.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/10/2019 20:48

"Listen to transwomen" is the mantra. I did, and that's how I came to be aware of what they want and of the fact that I basically had no choice but to fight back. If I had never actually interacted with any transwomen I too might still be in "well but we should be kind" mode.

DuMondeB · 06/10/2019 21:11

Hey, Joss! We know you are watching us, so tell us, was this woman ‘trans enough’ for you? She had a hysterectomy:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=aVse3ZKD9hA

Detransitioners are real, they aren’t a fucking conspiracy theory cooked up by fundamental Christians, 4 channels and terves.
The ROGD generation has been told that ‘only trans people question their gender, if you think you might be trans you are trans’ and now they are realising they were sold a lie. You cannot stem the incoming detransition tide.

Some people were wrong about being trans, get over it.

popehilarious · 06/10/2019 21:21

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but Mermaids have posted a Twitter thread:
twitter.com/Mermaids_Gender/status/1180823692458242048

THREAD. Recently, we've tried very hard to step away from the most degrading examples of anti-trans rhetoric in the national press and focus on the positive. Today, in the middle of what might feel like nothing short of an orchestrated onslaught, we feel we have no choice.1/
We cannot stand silent amidst a slew of misleading stories, seemingly designed to undermine, frighten, alienate and demonise a vulnerable minority, including children. We have been approached for comment by all of the journalists responsible...2/
...and it has been depressing, trying to offer fact-based, reasonable information. In truth, while a small number are simply too busy, too inexperienced, too lazy or too incompetent to question the motives of small but noisy groups seeking to spread fear and division...3/

...the truth is that some are only too happy to vilify transgender and NB kids and adults. So, after a short period of very positive coverage of transgender issues, we face the inevitable attempt to force us all back to the all-too-familiar tropes...4/

Let's start with a story on @SkyNews
about a new group, seeking to support mainly women and girls seeking to 'detransition'. We were approached for comment during the week with the assumption that we would be opposed to anyone supporting people who do so...5/

...We explained - again - that we support anyone following their own path and simply try to help people to feel empowered and safe. We sent a link to this blog post on our website. We also suggested the journalist consider the wealth of research...6/

showing that 'detransition' rates are very low: less than 1% in a number of intl studies, incl. the report below, which found of 3,398 trans patients who'd accessed NHS support, 16 expressed regret, and only 3 made a long-term detransition. 7/
Still, regret following any surgery is commonplace but - according to a number of international studies - regret for post-op. gender-transition patients is far lower than for other forms of 'plastic surgery'...8/

This doesn't mean we 'advocate' any particular route for young transgender or NB service users. Nor do we belittle or abandon those few who regret. Our ethos is only ever to support people in their own choices. We also suggested the Sky journo question the claim that...9/

...'hundreds' of people were approaching this new group for help. Journalistic diligence seemed beyond the reporter in question, in spight of the support they received from a full-time producer, who had been researching trans issues by 'reading the newspapers'. Deep breaths...10/

Any group supporting young people in their journey is welcome, so long as it isn't a trojan horse for anti-transgender rhetoric. Onto the next story...11/

There is no evidence to back the claim (below) up or give due weight to such a statement. We know this, because we have asked in vain to see it. Newspapers are quick to base articles on hearsay and unsubstantiated anecdotal claims made by a tiny minority. Why? 12/

Because fear and prejudice sells papers & gets clicks, and because a number of journalists personally believe that trans people (particularly trans women/girls) are a threat or are deserving of ridicule. The article claims cisgender girls are afraid to use the toilets. 13/

Our experience shows that it is transgender and non-binary students who are afraid to use the toilets at school. It is our young service users who speak very emotionally about years spent trying to hold on before using facilities, risking their health...14/

It is they who face daily verbal and physical assaults. We find no proof of transgender students causing cis' female classmate distress in school toilets while they are menstruating. We know of no figures suggesting trans or NB kids are a threat in school facilities at all. 15/

We do know that our service users are being regularly demonised in the national press, by a small number of people who seem intent on ruthlessly attacking defenceless children and encouraging their cis classmates to mock, isolate and ridicule them. We say: 16/

Shame on you. The newspapers, the journalists and the "equality campaigners", who seem determined to injure and cow every transgender person in the country, regardless of their age or vulnerability. @IpsoNews
: We ask for nothing more from our press than... 17/

...equality of coverage on this vital and complex issue.Not to be approached at the 11th hour for a 1-line comment at the end of a 1,000-word article founded on rumour, prejudice and division.Not to answer to factual inaccuracies.Not to be equated to groups fuelled by hate. 18/

We beg journos to spend 5 minutes looking into their sources, asking objectively what their motives & who their backers might be. We ask them to read scientific papers and look at respected international studies. We ask them to meet our service users to help them understand. 19/

Things are getting better. More and more, people are standing behind LGBTQ+ causes and newspapers are beginning to offer space to real people with real stories. That is precisely why this latest wave of negative coverage has come our way. In a way - it's a good sign. 20/

Still, we cannot ignore the fact that some politicians are also doubtful of the need to support transgender people. According to reports today, @trussliz , will deny trans adults the long-awaited freedom to self ID. We know many of those at @GEOgovuk
will be dismayed. 21/

The Women & Equalities Minister once described our importation of pears as "a disgrace".
@trussliz
, will you abandon our most vulnerable minority for political gain?
That. Truly. Is. A. Dis-grace. 22/

On this dismal day, let's end on a positive. We stand strong with our fellow charities and organisations: @stonewalluk
, @Genderintell
, @allsortsyouth
, @aktcharity
, @AllAboutTrans
, @PinkNews
, @gaytimesmag
and so many more.

We promise those who feel afraid this weekend... 23/

We will not abandon you.
We will not let you be silenced.
We will not let you be demonised.
We will keep fighting for your rights and for the truth.

One day, we will look back on these stories spreading fear and division and we will wonder how we kept going... 24/

...and the answer will be:

Because we always do. And because we have hope.

As we approach our 25th anniversary, we look at what we've achieved and only wish these 25 tweets weren't still necessary. But they are more necessary than ever.

So let's keep going.

End. 25/25.

-
(Twitter thread contains a few links re the research they cite).

DuMondeB · 06/10/2019 21:31

I wonder if a Mermaid’s supported parent will end up suing when a former ‘trans kid’ inevitably detransitions in adulthood? Wrong advice leading to life-changing, irreversible medical and surgical treatment could result in one hell of a legal claim.
Would probably wipe out all HBomber’s fundraising in a single suit.

CatalogueUniverse · 06/10/2019 21:58

This doesn't mean we 'advocate' any particular route for young transgender or NB service users.

Apart from affirmation being the only acceptable response. Not much room for changing your mind as a child if everyone around you is saying yes of course you aren’t a girl/boy, how silly of us.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/10/2019 22:01

You know, Mermaids could address this by providing an example of a case in which they supported a child and did not steer the child towards transition. If they had one.

Pota2 · 06/10/2019 22:06

Snort, Kittens, where on earth will they find a case like that? These are the people promising hormones within 2 hours remember.

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CatalogueUniverse · 06/10/2019 22:08

Desisting while a child is common only if the child goes through puberty. I doubt there are any studies yet on desisting after puberty was blocked followed by cross sex hormones and surgery.

I’m fairly sure a large part of puberty blocking is to ensure boys faces/bodies aren’t masculinised to allow for more androgynous look as adults. Girls is most likely to avoid the trauma of breasts and periods. You know that thing that traumatises all girls as you become something to be objectified. I vaguely recall UK outrage at US parents who block puberty in severely disabled children to make them easier to care for. I’m really not sure why the same outrage is not turned on the same process being applied to other children.

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/10/2019 08:12

Because of ROGD there will be increasing numbers of detransitioning young people in the years to come.

It is clear from other parts of the world that this is becoming and increasing issue.

For those who've not yet watched;

Swedish documentary

And I've just discovered this one with Rene Jax who is a trans woman, transitioned 28 years ago and fully regrets the decision.

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/10/2019 08:13

Sorry, new documentary I've just come across:

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/10/2019 08:22

Within the second documentary a surgeon talks about their centre for transgender surgical health and that "very actual now, reversal surgery."

So this isn't going away. This is going to increase. The TRAs are going to have to be held to account. And the hypocrisy of mermaids, who state that they follow US models of affirmation, are likely to wind up with court cases on their hands.

TemporaryPermanent · 07/10/2019 08:39

Mermaids positing themselves as the 'reasonable' supportive centrist voice in this??

I guess many of us like to think of ourselves as in the mainstream of opinion on most issues. And I'm sure many people think of Mermaids as a charity that supports children and families; who could possibly object? And I'm sure I'm wrong to think of them as a dangerous bunch of extremists, all the more because they think they ARE mainstream.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 07/10/2019 08:47

No centrist would be more balanced in their opinions and guidance. They appear to prefer one - and only one - solution to an unhappy or gender non-conforming child. It’s all just validation.

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