Famous men and surrogacy

[Annasgirl]

OK, so this is not to bash the specific person involved but last night I was heading to bed and a story came up on my phone - a person from Westlife was announcing the birth of their baby - through surrogacy (he is gay) and showed a pic of him, his boyfriend and the baby - there was no mother.

So, I totally lost it and poor DH had to listen to me rant for about an hour - but when, oh God, when, are we going to stand up and be counted and take back the rights of women and children?????

DH mentioned that there will always be women poor enough to agree to do this and I countered that you cannot sell a kidney (legally) or buy one so why should you be able to buy or sell a baby???????

BTW, DH agrees with me, but why do I feel I am the only person alive who is angry about this?

And I live in Wokesville (AKA Ireland) and I am worried that we are so keen to be woke and the most liberal place to be gay in the world, that we will soon legalise surrogacy or at least make it easy for people to legally buy a baby overseas and then take it home here. That is what the person was arguing for on his gushing post.

I'm cackling at your very feminine snort Vix

BINGO!

It's also interesting the way that Sirvixo is generalising the comments I've made, and I wonder how widely her assumption stetches? I'm also amazed by the assumptions around what I'm expecting people to do with my comments that follow those generalisations ... fascinating insights you're giving me!
I was surprised by the reaction to my suggestion that there was an anti-male tone to some of the comments .. Question: Do you think that the example comments I used from page 1 are void of anti-male sentiment??

Let me spell this out in simple terms: No man (straight or gay) has ever died because they weren't able to have a surrogate child.

Oh the irony NotTonight!

I'm just sitting here breastfeeding.

I’m a surrogate to a absolutely ADORABLE Irish couple. They are same sex & the boys deserve to be Daddies as much as all us women on here.

The baby will NOT be ripped from my breast - I’m not it’s mother. I am the oven that is cooking the baby. The baby will be going home with their Daddies, there is no Mummy. I’m just the cool aunty who has helped out her amazing friends build a family.

Educate yourselves ladies 🙄

It's really quite simple.

Do I think, given the mortality and morbidity risks associated with pregnancy, that commercial surrogacy is in any relevant way different from, say, selling a kidney? No.

Do I think it is ever acceptable to treat children as commercial products to be bought and sold? No.

Therefore commercial surrogacy (and I would say any contractual form of surrogacy where the surrogate waived her rights) is unacceptable.

Applies whether the clients are male, female or any combination thereof. No mansplaining (wah you're just anti men, wah, you're just anti gay men) necessary.

This is straightforwardly about the rights of children and pregnant women.

I agree with your definition of exploitation, but argue that it doesn't apply to UK surrogacy

@GardenMan1 it does seem rather naive to suggest that concerns exploitation don't apply in the UK. Cases like this seem to involve pretty clear exploitation.

Anyway the thread is about reform. Ideally reform would be aimed at safeguarding against exploitation, it's perfectly sensible to look at what has happened to surrogacy around the world and learn from that.

Gosh.

We've got a 'calm down dear' and an 'educate yourself ladies' on the same page now.

That's impressive.

It's good to have the perspective of someone doing it and I hesitate to respond in a way because clearly you're doing it, and with the best of intentions and of course we don't know the ins and outs of your situation - but this is a discussion board after all!

It sounds like you plan to be in the child's life so that seems to be much healthier than the anonymous sorts of surrogacy where the woman is a virtual stranger who won't participate at all.

I thought your description was interesting - The oven that's cooking the baby might be enough explanation for a six year old who doesn't "have" a known birth mum, but what about the adult? Is this going to be sufficient to explain why they don't have a mum? How will they feel about not having a mother in their lives?

The answer is we don't know. There's just not enough information about the impact on adults - like I said before, adopted children often feel that magnetic compulsion to seek out their birth mothers when they're older, it seems inevitable the same will be the case for some surrogate babies. I just don't think we're looking ahead because we're so fixated on what we want now.

I definitely don't see "friends and family" surrogacy as problematic as the anonymous/not in the child's life sort of birth, although there are so many issues around it all.

I know someone who was born as a surrogate, is now married with three children and who values the surrogacy journey (i.e. her parents) so much that she is about to become a surrogate mother herself.

The boys have talked extensively at how they will explain to their child how they came into the world & funny you should mention a “six year old” but my youngest daughter is 6 & she totally gets why I’m doing what I’m doing. Her first question to me was “why don’t X & Y have any children” she understands that because they are boys they can’t have babies & thinks I’m a superhero for helping them become Daddies.

I think if we think about this sensibly the world is so much more diverse now a days, there are hundreds of not thousands of same sex families successfully raising children - heck my 12 year old has a friend who has 2 Mummies but now Daddy..

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the lady who carried the baby didn’t want to be pictured to take away from their “moment” of being proud parents showing off their daughter?

Garden man Do you know how the three children feel about it? How does the husband feel? Does your friend know her biological roots? As this woman you know already has three children she could be at risk in a new pregnancy. You should advise her to look into life insurance.

I'm sure you've seen the story of the American women who died just before her scheduled c section. She was carrying twins for a Spanish couple (where surrogacy is illegal) - the twins also died. The woman's husband has a crowdfunder for her funeral and he is now raising their three children alone.

Not all stories have a happy ending.

Try and listen to what's actually being said NotTonight ....

I think it's really creepy that you refer to grown man and prospective fathers as 'boys'...

And is a woman an 'oven'? Gross.

Did you use your own egg Surro?

Not all non-surrogacy pregnancies, births and families have happy endings, so I fail to see your point around that.
Of course there are many important questions (some of which you mention) that need to be carefully thought about - and that's why I've been banging on about how much do people in this thread really know about UK surrogacy ... those questions and many more are thought about in the most meaningful ways imaginable.
On the flip side of that, there are many children born into families fortunate enough to be biologically able, whose welfare etc is not thought about for a single moment.

I think it's really creepy that you refer to grown man and prospective fathers as 'boys'...

Me too.