BBC Rupaul Drag Quiz

[GrimDamnFanjo]

Online if you want to take it. You translate the drag phrase.
How nice to see that those putting it together didn't think that "fishy" meaning a very feminine drag queen may be offensive....

Long hair can also be very masculine on men, like Thor and Game of Thrones. Keeping it all shiney and tossing it about like a silvikrin advert (does that still exist?) might be considered more feminine, but that is learned behaviour

Cor, yeh!

I have a penchant for young, beautiful, long haired rock gods. Very masculine in the most positive of ways.

As annoying as Lass could be before she left, one thing I did agree with her about was that there can be a really dismissive attitude among some towards feminine women, as though they were letting the feminist side down.For me, breaking free from gender means that we acknowledge the sex binary, but we do not hold each sex to specific roles and expression

Well said!

Why did 'Lass' leave?

Yes - should have thought of the heavy rockers - tired and hard of thinking

Lass got targeted for reporting, and was one warning short of a ban, so decided to leave with her dignity intact.

Yes - should have thought of the heavy rockers - tired and hard of thinking grin

I'm thinking of the young Eddie Vedder and the young Anthony Kiedis....amongst others. Love young men with long hair. I associate young hair with youth rather than with femininity.

Well, tbh, there is rather a lot of overlap in some 'feminine' coded things and things considered youthful, isn't there? It's an interesting set of stereotypes worth examining, really. I still maintain it's a neutral term depending on context, but I'm not insisting anyone use it.

I'm pondering why I react differently to it than to fishy, and I think it's because fishy is used as a compliment for a man when he is dressed in stereotypically feminine garb, but would never be used of a woman as a compliment. Whereas feminine could be used of both men and women in a descriptive way without a negative connotation.

Long hair can also be very masculine on men, like Thor and Game of Thrones.

So long hair on a man is masculine, and long hair on a woman is feminine? That sort of implies that long hair isn't actually associated with a particular sex, it's just usually found on the heads of people with sexed bodies - which would make it neither masculine nor feminine.

There's a marked difference between masculine and feminine long hair styles in GoT, and the feminine styles take much more work (and often servants) to do properly. It's possibly not actually the best rebuttal of the point I was failing to make. Quite the opposite, in fact. Their masculine styles (which some women wear) are low maintenance and their feminine styles (which no men wear) tie up a lot of women's time while keeping them reliant on others to be considered presentable.

Well, actually, I'm a bit lost now - you're still arguing that femininity is a negative? I was just pondering how much long hair suited Aragorn when he was all muddy and battle weary, and how it looked a bit rubbish when he was L'Oreal clean and shiny at the end of the films. And actually Anthony Kiedis was the only man who sprung to mind who had long hair in a shiny, well kempt 'feminine' style as understood in our culture, and how Thor etc. tended to have long hair that was rather different to the long hair that is often coded feminine.

I dunno really. I called a guy pretty this evening, so I'm really not doing very well at all this.

I’m a bit confused now.

R4 was on and they were promoting an upcoming slot on drag in history (sure it will all be about men in drag, and not about women dressing as men as a necessity to avoid rape, get an education, etc).

They mentioned RP as ‘she’. So are they a character like Dame Edna? Can a ‘she’ do drag queen? Can I do drag queen - then it’s not drag is it?

Then they mentioned Helen Mirren so I switched over to another station.

there can be a really dismissive attitude among some towards feminine women, as though they were letting the feminist side down.
Hell yes.

Lass left following a thread about a school banning girls from wearing skirts. Before it all kicked off there were plenty of posters applauding the school.

I love long hair on men and don't consider it feminine at all regardless of how well groomed it is. If it isn't well groomed at all I'd consider that a negative trait rather than a positive masculine one (picture a metal roadie whose hair doesn't appear to have ever made contact with conditioner - not my idea of attractive regardless of who the hair in question is attached to).

A lot of what some societies frame as positive appearance stuff for men just looks like "needs a good shower and a lot more attention paid to personal grooming in the future" to me. As you can imagine, the rise of beardy culture in young men baffles me.

Ru Paul is not actually the name of the person in question, right? I always figured it was a character, but don't see any reason why that means we should pretend the person in question is a she.

They are going to talk about “men dressing up as women” on R4 Broadcasting House within the next hour.

If it’s like the piece that was on a little while ago it will just be blarbing on about men and nothing about women.

Yes, but how do men feel about the things men would like to do? And now for an alternate viewpoint! How do men feel about women saying things about the things men like to do?

I was thinking more about women who presented as male to get a job or education, or to avoid rape, forced marriage, etc.

Ru Paul is “making an appearance” so we can imagine how it’s going to go.

Lots of horrible anti woman jokes draped in ‘but I loooooove women sooooooo much - but I’m better at it than they are’

Rupaul isn't a character name, that's his given name.

If drag is, as some people claim, all about gay men subverting their oppression by homophobic men, and nothing to do with parodying women, then I think we could do without Ru Paul saying "may the best woman win", which seems to be a favourite tag line used by this drag queen in the Drag Race TV show.

If drag is about men being feminine, then why can't men just do the dresses, wigs, lipstick and eyeshadow etc. without parodying the secondary sexual characteristics of women (e.g. larger breasts and wider hips)? Why don't they subvert heterosexual masculinity by exaggerating male sexual characteristics in some way, and leave women out of it?

I heard a gay male historian of drag talking about what a wonderful history there was of men dressing up as women in theatre, for example during Shakespeare's time, completely ignoring the fact that women were banned from acting.

If drag is about men being feminine, then why can't men just do the dresses, wigs, lipstick and eyeshadow etc. without parodying the secondary sexual characteristics of women (e.g. larger breasts and wider hips)?

Yes, this. The minute a stuffed bra comes into the equation it becomes parody. Drag of that ilk is tasteless

Well, this is it really. Drag may have a long and treasured place in the history of gay male culture. I have defended it online, having been involved in the gay scene since I was in my teens and having known some decent gay men.

But I'm a woman, and quite frankly, if a precious part of gay male culture is based very firmly in the sneering mockery and unfair exclusion of women, then it deserves to be dismantled and consigned to the same historical embarrassment hall where we keep black and white minstrel shows and jokes about dropping the soap in prison showers.

Can’t believe the BBC are showing this.

I heard a gay male historian of drag talking about what a wonderful history there was of men dressing up as women in theatre, for example during Shakespeare's time, completely ignoring the fact that women were banned from acting.

I'm always struck by how Peter Tatchell, as an example, seems blind to women's oppression - except incidentally to his crusade for gay men.