Why do women not believe other women (Boris Johnson story)

[Annasgirl]

I came on to see if there was a thread on this, and there is a similar thread on the topic but it is based on giving out about George Galloway (I'm not in the UK so no real opinion on him except that I don't like him).

However, watching the Channel 4 news last night I was amazed at the number of people (women) who asked why the journalist did not raise this allegation earlier and questioning her integrity.

Now, these kinds of comments square with my impression that the greatest achievement of the patriarchy was to get women to compete always and ever against other women for the crumbs from the man's table. So, women have never been each others allies in the way that men were (war etc) and they instead belittle and criticise the woman in these scenarios instead of the men (see also, the constant criticism of the other woman and never of the married man; the lack of belief of women in rape trials; the lack of belief of women in MeToo; the list of senior female actresses who still defend Weinstein, and Polanski; the madams who procure women for creepy men - and on and on ad infinitum.

Until women put other women first there really will be no better future for our daughters and I find this incredibly sad. I grew up in a matriarchy and I have always encouraged and supported other women and girls throughout my life - I am just always saddened that this is the exception rather than the rule.

Honestly? You really think he didn't do it? It doesn't fit your mental picture of our esteemed leader? Really??

Well as the person who seems to be in charge of repeatedly demanding that people convince you that “they belieeeeeve”, LangCleg, I’d say that you’re ideally suited to that role. Congratulations.

As a woman, do I need to believe absolutely everything another woman tells me about anything, or just the sexual misconduct stuff

Neither has been my experience

Mumsnet did do the ‘I believe her’ campaign

But last time i checked you didn’t have to think that every word out of any womans mouth was the gospel truth

Thats my opinion obviously

Why? Are particular women fair play for being groped? What are your criteria? Wearing glasses for photos? Writing insufficiently well for your standards?

Have you read the article? Edwardes is utterly contemptuous of The Spectator except it happened to be useful for a pneumatic twentysomething intern to get an in to the world of the elite London media. She very obviously knew what it would be like there and its ethos and seems from that article to have been happy to go along with it because it suited her.

The glasses on her by line are a silly affectation because clever girls always have specs don't they?

Jillyhilly, so you don't believe her. That's your prerogative, and thanks for at least saying it openly, instead of this utterly pathetic 'yes, I think he groped her, but I don't think it's a big deal' crap that others are pressing here.

She knew what it was like and went along with it.

JFC.

She knew what it was like and went along with it

Have you read her article? Where she refers to being "totty" "a Bambi" "pneumatic twentysomething intern". Yes - she knew what it was like and The Spectator was useful for her career.

Im a bit confused as to why being mean in an article means she can’t complain about being groped

Honestly sorry sally ive obviously missed your point, could you explain

Im a bit tired and probably not thinking clearly

Yup. She was totally asking for it. Couldn't have expected anything else, and therefore shouldn't complain or even mention what happened. No need for it, really. She's got a career hasn't she? A bit uppity if you ask me, just keep your head down and get on with it. Tsk.

Congratulations.

Thanks. Let's reconvene when you get groped and have the pipe dream that a feminist forum might be a supportive place to talk about it.

I’m a feminist and I am most certainly not a supporter of Johnson, his party or Brexit and I don’t doubt that this journalist is giving what she regards as a factual account of an incident which happened 20 years ago, but I would also question why she didn’t raise it at the time and conclude that her motivation for raising it now is likely to be political.

I definitely believe her. I can easily picture Boris exhibiting this entitled predatory Male behaviour.
Why has she only brought this up now, I've no fucking idea. I'm not her, so no comment about the timing from me.

See, I wrote 'why has she only brought this up now'
I Fucked up there

I believe her. Boris is scum and he has a long track record of treating women with contempt. Why didn’t she bring it up when it happened. I’d guess maybe for the same reasons I never told anyone about a family friend trying to perve on me, or why the woodwork assistant at my school harassed me on my way home from school.

I see this thread remains as depressing as ever. Amazing how quick some are to throw other women under the bus.

I thought everyone knew that we don't report it because the punishment is severe for low status individual women who do so, until there is a 'me too' event when it becomes a little safer to speak out because there are so many targets.

Being groped by your boss or co worker 20 years ago is one thing.
Being groped by a PM or Supreme Court Judge 20 years ago goes to character and we have an obligation to our country and to ourselves to speak up even if we are abused for it

’Have you read the article? Edwardes is utterly contemptuous of The Spectator except it happened to be useful for a pneumatic twentysomething intern to get an in to the world of the elite London media. She very obviously knew what it would be like there and its ethos and seems from that article to have been happy to go along with it because it suited her.

Yes, how dare a young woman enter a situation to progress her career knowing its full of misogynists and sexual abusers, and then complain when it happens?

The actual nerve. Just like all those actresses who must have been happy to be assaulted by Weinstein because he was good for their career...

You can’t be serious

I would also question why she didn’t raise it at the time and conclude that her motivation for raising it now is likely to be political

I’m not sure that this is a problem is it?

Surely the problem is Johnson groping a junior employee, not the employee choosing when to talk about it?

but I would also question why she didn’t raise it at the time and conclude that her motivation for raising it now is likely to be political

Why is this a "but"?

On the day workplace sexual harassment is taken seriously and does not impact future career prospects, and on the day wealthy upper class men do not escape unscathed from transgressions, and on the day the criminal justice system is fit for purpose for women...

... perhaps then we could squeeze out a but.

Otherwise, I'm a feminist but.... holds no more water for me than I'm not racist but....

But. Only three letters but a lot of meaning: none of it feminist.

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, it doesn't really matter whether you think Charlotte Edwardes is a poor writer, or that she wears glasses when she doesn't need to, or that she knew what she was getting into when she attended a Spectator lunch, or that she has chosen the timing of her revelations carefully.

None of this is germane to the real question, which is: do we want a man who surreptitiously gropes young women as our prime minister? It's horrible behaviour, not just sexist but an abuse of power. We've all had this or something similar happen to us at one time or another, and I'm sure we all thought the men in question were utter creeps. Why would we want one running the country?

Because Brexit, seems to be the answer that nobody wants to bring up for fear of turning this thread into even more of a shitshow than it already is.

I have questions...

If its 'no big deal' then why is it a problem for her to talk about it?

Why does it matter that she has only chosen to talk about it now?

How much of a creep does a male have to be before its permitted to talk about it?

Am I, for example, allowed to mention my first boss who, when I was 17 and in my first job, liked to stand behind me and put his hands on my shoulders?

That was about 25 years ago - am I OK to say he creeped me out and still feel skeevy about it now?

If people believe her or not, that’s a view that should remain private, it isn’t our job to be judge or jury.

The sort of reactions are one of the reasons why people are unlikely to report assaults, I was very seriously assaulted in my late teens, I chose not to report it and as a 31 year old I’m still happy that I made the right decision. It was absolutely the right decision for me.

If I had reported it I likely wouldn’t have been believed, so I wouldn’t have been able to protect other people. If I had reported it I could have ended up being accused of making a false allegation, no one wants that on their record and as someone who at the time wasn’t a british citizen, any form of criminal record was too risky.

I am confident that something happened, just by the way BoJo acts, don't know the full details so can not completely comment. What I do not understand is how he became so popular given his track record of creating baby after baby with different women, he is the very definition of a dead beat dad. An awful large portion of the Tory base will quickly rant about some lad from a council estate who has two kids with two mums even if years apart. Their criticism will be full of vitriol about these dead beats, yet they see Johnson as some kind of messiah. Anyhow, given his track record I can see him making passes at women frequently well overstepping the mark, he is quite the slime ball.

The idea that Boris Johnson is the hill anyone wants to die on baffles me, especially if they call themselves a feminist. He's basically Trump with a posh accent.