They them pronouns

[Yeahnahyeah]

So I just watched a you tube video by a non binary blue haired person who was reporting on her pride parade experience. This person uses they/them pronouns.

They spent well over ten minutes complaning that wherever they went that day (watching the parade, coffee, meeting friends) sooo many people did not use the correct they/them pronouns; it was constant, and offensive, etc etc.

The thing is, I only very rarely hear my pronouns used. (She/her ). I find it hard to believe this person heard them so many times over a few hours, so I'm calling it out.

How often do you hear your pronouns on an average day?

And I feel really stupid and a bit resentful that I have had to use 'they' throughout this post, or do the rules on here not extend to they/them?

@Pota2 I agree I wish they'd stop offering all those titles, it is completely ingrained and it does set us back, its so insidious.

My vet and GP both keep referring to me as Miss (in writing) and I feel silly making a 'big deal' of it repeatedly but language does matter.

I see the little badges around my office (near some unis) and they (badges not people) are very useful. It shows me who is likely to kick off at any moment - and by god they do.

I don’t think you’re being very fair or inclusive, OP. I also believe that this person could well have heard themselves being described with the wrong pronoun. For example:

‘She/he is up her/his own hole’

Get a load of that blue haired man/women, looking for offence’.

‘Jesus don’t ask (blue haired person) over to join us, you know he/she is always looking to play the victim’.

See, it’s quite possible. 😁

Miss, Mrs, Mr etc are honorifics, not pronouns
Yes I know that, but as an integral part of my identity I shall indeed find you guilty of the hate crime of mis-honourificking and light a fire for your immediate burning.

I’m going to use ‘Admiral’ next time I have to choose from a list.

Seems a good time to post this again:

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

I think anyone working in a health care setting should demand to be known as doctor. That would be great fun.

I think anyone working in a health care setting should demand to be known as doctor. That would be great fun.

Surgeons wouldn't agree to it

On the matter of 'picking battles' - there's a simple way of deciding which projects to work on by plotting on a chart of importance versus difficulty. There's usually no reason not to address all the 'low hanging fruit' items, even if some are relatively trivial. You omit the ones which are both unimportant and difficult.

As a linguist I find it quite weird to hear people constantly banging on about pronouns, when a decade ago the average person wouldn't have had a clue what a pronoun was!

Someone said upthread that it used to be considered rude to use pronouns in front of people. That's not really true - firstly because I, we, they, it, which, who, myself etc are all pronouns too, and have never been considered rude. Secondly, it was only rude to refer to someone just with a pronoun without mentioning their name first. "Ask if Auntie Sue would like a cup of tea, as she's had a long journey" would surely have been perfectly fine.

lazylinguist yeah at least it’s educating the nation about grammar. Although I fear that if you asked them what an adverb is, you’d get blank faces....

True, Pota2 - though I think it's probably making people think that the only pronouns that exist are she, he and they. They are probably still woefully ignorant of reflexive pronouns, relative pronouns, demonstrative pronouns, interrogative pronouns etc, nit to mention subject and object pronouns. Sad that they are missing out. Apologies for grammar derail...

I have thought about this OP and realised that I only hear two people refer to me as 'she/her'.

They are dd when she is being rude about me to her friends or my friends and my dm when she is being (usually humourously) rude about me to the rest of my family.

Those are the only times I hear people use my third person pronouns and, given that they are both aiming to be rude anyway I'm not sure they would agree to xie or zer. I think I am doomed to having them control my pronouns. The oppression has only really just come home to me. Might need

Missing the point of the thread, but I wonder how non binary people prefer to be called by their nieces and nephews...

Missing the point of the thread, but I wonder how non binary people prefer to be called by their nieces and nephews...

I'd guess by their current non-binary choice of forename, 'aunt' and 'uncle' are irredeemably uncool and old.

And when the nieces and nephews are non-binary too?

"I am going to my sibling's offspring's Birthday party later on".

my pronouns are Bitch

I watched a youtube video by a non binary person the other day talking about the Contrapoints drama. It was so weird because despite trying their best to look androgynous it was extremely obvious which sex they were (hint: it's the one that produces large gametes) but they kept talking about how, if they thought they were in a space that would be "unsafe" for NB people, they identified as male instead - a "cis" man if they thought they'd pass, or a transman if they thought they wouldn't. I thought that was fascinating. In a world where being trans is apparently the most vulnerable endangered group, this person thought they'd be safer claiming to be a trans man than a "cis" woman (which I can 100% guarantee is how everyone would have read them). Surely if you're in a place where it'd be dangerous to be openly NB, the safest thing to do would be to just use the pronouns that you pass as. For this person, that was very very clearly she/her. I wasn't sure if they were reeeeeally deluded over how masculine they looked (basically just a short hair cut and baggy top) or if they didn't actually care how people perceived them as long as it wasn't as a woman. They talked about being on T for years but not masculinising much, and I wondered if they decided to identify as NB because they realised they'd never pass as a man. The whole thing seemed pretty shit for them. The internalised misogyny was just dripping off them. Can't wait for this period in history to end, though I have a bad feeling it'll be replaced by something worse.

Pronouns do get used in group situations, but rarely outside of that. To use people's preferred pronouns is a politeness, but should not be a 'if you don't do this you are committing literal violence against me omg'.

One thing rarely brought up in this context is that for decades queer people used 'they' to speak about their partners to avoid outing themselves. That assocation has not been recognised by the young trans people, and it should be.

Someone said upthread that it used to be considered rude to use pronouns in front of people. That's not really true

Well, it clearly was rude in the context in which the poster was referring to If one is present during a discussion, it would be considered rude for people to say " she said", or "he said" rather than use your name.

I, me, you, your, are what I hear most often because I am not a nosy parker like blue bouffant.
"I'd rather be rude than a liar." is my current position.

Regarding this: Like you ( I'm imagining you are in your late 20's /early 30's) many women, when younger, or fresh to the women's movement/feminism, got riled about these things - but have since gained more perspective and sense of priority - and our selves and identities have formed in such a way that they don't, necessarily, hinge on these issues.
I am 73 and have been pissed off about the dominance/submission language rules for 56 years, so obviously we do not all improve in the ways you clearly imagine you have done.

I'm going to the bank on Monday to get my title changed to Ms on my account and my cards.
I hope it's easy. I'm too old to be a miss. It bothers me. So I will change it.

How often do you hear your pronouns
Couldn’t tell you. But I’m not going around counting just so I’ve got something to whinge about. I’m extremely easy going. So much so, that when a lady assumed my toddler DS was a girl because his T-shirt was a bit too long and dress-like, I didn’t even call the police.

I've never been asked to state my pronouns, but I've decided that I'll request XX/XX.

Interesting point about aunts and uncles and nieces and nephews where there is no alternative. Does that mean we have to use child, parent, grandparent, sibling, sibling in law, parent in law?

I think at a certain point they will come up with an alternative to 'you' as well, otherwise, as everyone says, pronouns are pretty irrelevant in a conversation with someone and it doesn't provide enough scope for validation and outrage.