Is 'Housewife' an occupation?

[Soontobe60]

First contestant on Mastermind tonight has given her occupation as housewife. Does that mean she is employed by her husband? She looks too old to have children that need looking after, and if she had an adult disabled child then her occupation would be carer.
Surely in this day and age no one claims that their occupation is housewife?

If that's how she wants to describe it, and she's happy, meh. That's her prerogative, getting sneery about it says a lot.

Soontobe60 but the only reason that DH can do the job he does is because I do what I do (technically a housewife as both kids are at school). We are a team, and at this stage of our lives it makes the most sense and we are both happy with the situation.

I'm a long-time lurker on this board, but rarely post. I consider myself a feminist, but I know that some would probably argue against me using that term as I'm also a housewife!

My mum's a housewife.

Over the years she's done paid work as a travel agent, secretary, administrator, foster carer and courier. She does actually now get a small pension from an old employer - is she a "pensioner" in her mid 50s? She isn't retired as such - she stopped working in that industry in her 20s.

She also does lots of volunteering - like 50+ hours a month.

"Housewife", like "SAHP" covers all kinds of things. It's just shorthand for not in paid work but not seeking paid work.

If the compromise in having a lifestyle whereby one person stays and maintains the property and/or garden, means that one who earns more works, pays for everything and the other stays at home, if that works for them, being sneery and judgemental about who paid for what is sad, really. As long as they're happy, why be so judgemental? Sometimes people simply can't pay for a house etc on their own income for a variety of reasons. Teaming up, making compromises, living a life that means you are both in agreement as to who does what and how, who works etc, if that works for them, who cares?

The idea that you can’t be a feminist and a housewife is utterly ridiculous.

Interesting discussion. Back in the 60’s and 70’s, “housewife” was a derogatory term. It denoted a little woman who was financially dependent on a man, and subservient to him, doing all his chores for no payment. If you look at adverts from the time, housewives were portrayed as empty headed little souls obsessed with the latest washing powder. Feminists at the time were fighting for equal pay and encouraging all women to have a job and income, to avoid the dependency trap. If the husband was violent, there were no women’s refuges and no escape.

My own cousin, punched by her husband, was told by the judge at her divorce hearing that she should “learn to duck”.
These attitudes run deep, and may partly explain the low regard for the term persisting into the current era.

The idea that you can’t be a feminist and a housewife is utterly ridiculous.

It is - and I don't think anyone is actually saying that.

then you're lucky in that he earns enough for you to be able to stay at home, but don't kid yourself, the only reason you can do that is because of him.

And so what? We are (actually, were -- he died two years ago) partners. He was able to work for good money, while I took care of making the home a place of warmth and goodwill, and I had the luxury of raising my own kids.
I do know it's a luxury compared to women in the UK. In Germany, where I raised my kids, there was a tax difference of several hundred Euros a month because I was at home, and also I earned credits for my pension, from both of us, so that now, as a pensioner, I am just as well off financially as when I was working, or even better.

I am aware that I am very, very lucky; but on the other hand, I feel that this is the way it should be; that women should have a choice of being full time mothers without financial disadvantages; and that that choice should not earn them mockery or disparagement.

I think I get what you're saying OP - it's not "all housewives are stupid", it's that the title "housewife" isn't good enough for women, given all they do, so what would be a better one. Is that right?

I tend to agree, I feel like it's a diminutive sort of term. It reduces the woman to "just" looking after the house and belonging to it/the husband in way.

Being technical about it, women don't have to get married these days either, so they're not really wives either.

Homemaker is probably the only alternative but it sounds a bit twee.

The idea that you can’t be a feminist and a housewife is utterly ridiculous.

That idea was very common up until recently. It's only in recent years that I've seen SAHM standing up for their choice instead of ducking.
I can't count how many times I was told my mind would grow rusty while being at home with kids, or that the walls would fall in on me, or something else equally moronic.

The thing that is interesting about being a housewife is how much the pay and conditions vary.

Excellent point grass

Being a housewife can add to the family wealth though. There’s doing certain tasks in-house that reduce outgoings some of which might need be out sourced if both people worked ( cooking from scratch not ready meals/cook kits/takeaways, mending things, not having a cleaner, gardener, window cleaner). If you’re talking about not doing a minimum wage or near minimum wage job but undertaking some of those hinge yourself that could well make sense, particularly if you have uncertain hours into account. Add in child care and the salary bracket that would break even is a lot more.

Then there’s also undertaking projects that substantially contribute to family money.

One year I was a housewife I project managed home improvements that cost £60k but added £100k (30% of value) to the value of our house.

That’s £40k net in one year, so equivalent a salary of £55-60k with none of the extra expenses that come with a job of that level (travel, work wardrobe, work socialising) so you could add an extra £5k-£10k on to that salary given you’d be in the higher tax bracket. Then there’s also an ongoing effect because the value of the house has gone up, so as each time house prices go up it means a bit more than it would without the improvements).

If I’d not had the time to do that, it would have cost a lot more in professional fees and I’d have spent more on certain items as less time to research and compare costs. We’d probably not have been able to buy a wreck and do it up ( 2 bed with just a loo in a cupboard, no room in the cupboard even for a sink turned into a two bed, two bath where the bathrooms were new and with a new kitchen as well- kitchen needed to be remodelled to add extra bathroom). So we’d have had to get a smaller place or a bigger mortgage, neither of w which would have been possible.

And at the time, I was going through diagnosis for an at the time unidentified chronic illness that was causing me a lot of difficulties, it would have been impossible for me to hold down a normal job. But the ability to be in the home and set my own schedule made it possible for me to do a full working day most days.

So there’s another thing, saying “housewife” can mean someone doesn’t have to say “well, I’ve not been that well for a while, but the doctor’s aren’t sure what it is yet” or similar. Which would be a bit tmi in a lot of settings.

One of the doctors I met during the diagnosis said something in a lovely way. When he asked what my occupation was I mumbled something like “I’m not working just now, so housewife I suppose” and he very firmly but gently said “So you do work, just in the home”. And it made me feel so much better, having felt so judged so many times and being so scared of being judged again.

A lot of valuable but undervalued work is undertaken by housewives.

I quite like “homemaker”. I agree that “housewife” might sound a little passive and dated (although I wouldn’t judge someone who chose to call themselves one). Homemaker as a title sounds more active and comes closer to acknowledging the work involved in running a household and caring for a family.

Like others, I think Mastermind has an agenda with making contestants state their occupation; because viewers will have preconceptions about intellectual capabilities based on occupation, which of course are often unfounded.

The thing that is interesting about being a housewife is how much the pay and conditions vary.

Yes... I thing this is where some of the apparent negativity or at least caution derives from.

For many women, being a housewife is a rational choice, half of a balanced partnership of equals, with equal control of finances. (Quite often the 'finance director').

At the other extreme, there are some women who are functionally enslaved.

None of us, but we can't pretend that there aren't still problems for some in traditional roles. Our lives may be fine; surely we're feminist because we care about the conditions of women who aren't?

Like others, I think Mastermind has an agenda with making contestants state their occupation; because viewers will have preconceptions about intellectual capabilities based on occupation, which of course are often unfounded.

Maybe something like 'how would you describe yourself' would be better - so, some might still choose their occupation (inc housewife), but others might focus on a volunteer activity or 'hobby' - 'amateur archaeologist' or suchlike.

I wrote housewife on my landing and exit card for Morocco- the boarder police thought I was fabulous especially as I had two boys.

Feminism should mean the right to choose. Not a right to judge

It isn’t a recent idea that feminists can be housewives. Some of the major feminist writings and campaigns have been about the value of women’s unpaid labour.

Back in the 60’s and 70’s, “housewife” was a derogatory term.
Not in my experience. Factual and unremarkable, but not derogatory.

It's only in recent years that I've seen SAHM standing up for their choice instead of ducking. I can’t think of a single one of my mothers/grandmothers generation who ever expressed any shame at looking after their own children.

There are employed women who are “functionally enslaved” that’s not about their occupation it’s about domestic abuse.

Maybe something like 'how would you describe yourself' would be better - so, some might still choose their occupation (inc housewife), but others might focus on a volunteer activity or 'hobby' - 'amateur archaeologist' or suchlike.

But then you might not get the !Surprise! factor of a bin man being an expert on medieval European architecture, or whatever.

Having thought about it, I think people quite like having their preconceptions challenged because there’s an element of the underdog triumphing. Like Susan Boyle, or some of the more unlikely contestants on Bake Off.

So I can actually imagine the contestant the OP mentioned having a load of fascinating hobbies and volunteering roles, and the producer saying “No, we’ll put you down as a housewife because that will make better TV”

@MrsPear totally agree. It's why I tend to stay away from feminist discussion (and I do definitely believe in equality between the sexes). Currently not working myself after I left my last job through stressful circumstances - we are fortunate as a unit that we don't need the 2nd income and I am not ashamed to describe myself as a housewife, despite the fact I have a PhD! What I actually found embarrassing was the assumption from people that I was a housewife because we had small children that needed looking after - we don't (though we do now have one on the way)! My DM used to describe herself jokingly as a domestic engineer (mostly to wind up my DF who was an actual engineer)!

Surely in this day and age no one claims that their occupation is housewife?

The more contemporary term may be home-maker. And yes, this is an occupation for many people; women especially - and one that many take pleasure in.

If you're single, no kids but have a hefty inheritance or what not to live off how would you define yourself. Home maker doesn't quite seem right?

'Lady of Leisure', 'A Woman of Independent Means' ( that was used by both sexes in the past)?

It's interesting how so much is made of people's occupations. I believe that although the question appears to oil the wheels of communication, it is actually a (possibly subconscious) way of categorising people socially and intellectually.
It would be good if people were simply asked to say something about their interests.
My job title is personal assistant, and I like it as it could cover a multitude of things.

'Lady of Leisure', 'A Woman of Independent Means' ( that was used by both sexes in the past)?

That to me denotes a quite different role - somebody who has staff. 'Housewife' denotes something more like a housekeeper who is not a paid employee.

The more contemporary term may be home-maker.
When I was a child in the 60s/70s, our church 'young wives' group renamed itself 'homemakers'. It's been around awhile!