Is 'Housewife' an occupation?

[Soontobe60]

First contestant on Mastermind tonight has given her occupation as housewife. Does that mean she is employed by her husband? She looks too old to have children that need looking after, and if she had an adult disabled child then her occupation would be carer.
Surely in this day and age no one claims that their occupation is housewife?

The thing I do feel really grateful for is that I have choices, and that I have work that is both interesting and where I'm senior enough to have some autonomy, and that other factors in my life (primarily a husband who is an actual equal parent) make working easier for me. I think that's where some women can fail to understand how the reality of other people's lives mean that we're not all making decisions on an equal basis - I've been guilty in the past of assuming that everyone could work if they wanted to, and I've also seen other women assume the opposite. One reason not to judge other people's choices (other than it just generally not being good karma!) is that they understand all the factors that went into that decision and you don't.

Like getting rid of the term 'midwife'. That may also attract more men into that area!

Why would women want to attract more men as midwives? The mind boggles. If there's one job which seems essential that a woman should do, then this.
(Yes, I've heard that there are some excellent male midwives and some lousy female ones, but still...)

I have a good friend who is a "lady of leisure". She is an accountant and counselor by education, and extremely intelligent, but has hardly ever worked throughout her life. She raised three children as a SAHM. Her husband is a top-earning accountant and she has travelled the world with him. They have lived in Hong Kong, Sydney, Dubai and Abu Dhabi over the last 20 years, and in that time she has never "worked". She always lives in fabulous houses/villas, but cleans them herself and is also a fabulous cook, who takes time to prepare wonderful meals which she learned from her mother. She is ethnic Indian (but British), her husband is English, and they both live a seemingly enviable lifestyle -- though with a massive carbon footprint, as she travels a lot visiting her 3 kids who live in various countries, continents, and also for fabulous holidays in Mauritious, Bali etc. As a hobby, she sometimes quilts.

She has never once regretted not having a career, and yes, she's lucky and knows it, but she also has absolutely no sense of being inferior to a career woman or bored at home. Her husband is the most adoring husband I've ever met, and as they now retire back in England I expect the "Lady of Leisure" thing will continue.

She too calls herself a houswife.

@Lamahaha so it's ok to have male obstetricians and gynaecologists but not male midwives!!

No one said its not OK

The question is whether women want them
Whether they would be as effective (think I've read stuff about women being more relaxed with women attending which leads to better outcomes).

I would think a lot of women would prefer female gynaes etc as well tbh. Not saying men shouldn't do it.

I expect a lot of men prefer a man for their prostate/ dick n balls stuff as well.

@minesagin A midwife plays a totally different role to a doctor. Her role is as emotional as it is medical. She is there to encouage you, hole your hand, rejoice with you, simply connect with you on an emotional and deeply intimite way during an extremely stressful and challenging few hours of your life. This role is not required of an ob/gyn.
I truly cannot imagine a man, however gentle and kind, going through that with me. Apart from my husband.

@5zeds you don't know what a housewife does!!

I think you're forgetting the ton of women who go out work and then do all that stuff on top! We just do it faster and don't talk about it as much!

@Lamahaha thanks for pointing that out! I hadn't realised ( she said sarcastically)!

So you accept that birth outcomes for both mother and baby may not be so good with Male attendants

But want to encourage them to become midwives anyway

Interesting.

Also you don't think midwives should be called midwives as it might put men off

Even though midwife means 'with woman'

Also interesting.

@minesagin37 Good to know I could help.

Her occupation is "none".

If however, she is to be described as a housewife then when I go on Mastermind, I shall say I'm a lawyer and a housewife. Because I do both. Lawyer full-time, housewife part-time (as my DH does househusband part-time too).

Contribute to society and my own.

I don't want my cleaning and household chores, home admin to go unnoticed.

So you want women who are at home with kids etc, when asked occupation, to say none. OK that's 1 person at least who has offered an alternative.

Isn't it interesting as well that occupation is taken to mean paid. Rather than the more general, what occupies your time. Same as work, according to lots on mn, means paid work, not other stuff like mending your shed, looking after kids etc.

Capitalism really has done a number on us!

We just do it faster

Nah i dont reckon...im well fast at housework

Get the stupid sodding stuff done as quickly as humanly possible

Of course many professional women look down on 'housewives

Maybe, but I'd guess there are many professional men who look down on men performing similar roles (whether paid or not).

Don't confuse women who look down on other women with any sort of feminist (which is something blokes who pontificate on FWR seem to manage with tedious regularity).

Of course many professional women look down on 'housewives

Of course there are, but the unfortunate truth is that many professional women (and men) also look down on the people who clean their office - it doesn't mean that that isn't a job. It tells you more about the people looking down than the people being looked down on.

I do think occupation means paid.

I live in a world where people have to pay tax for education, health, roads, etc. Everyone uses these services so everyone should help to pay for it if they can.

I understand caring for children, being retired (you've done your stint) so significantly disabled you can't work (as of course many people who are disabled do still work) but I don't appreciate simply allowing your partner to pay tax on your behalf and not working when you can.

I'm sure capitalism and communism both want everyone of a certain adult age to undertake paid (so they pay taxes) work if they can.

Ok, well a lot of women certainly look down on SAHMs, and that's certainly more demanding in most cases than being a childless housewife.

I'm sure capitalism and communism both want everyone of a certain adult age to undertake paid (so they pay taxes) work if they can.

...and are happy to pay those doing the vital work of childcare, caring for elderly and disabled etc, so that others can work, a pittance or nothing.

...and are happy to pay those doing the vital work of childcare, caring for elderly and disabled etc, so that others can work, a pittance or nothing.

I agree those occupations are often underpaid, but in the instance that it's one's partner that's working, the norm is that he pays for the things that you'd otherwise had to work for surely?

Maybe she's a housewife now.....who knows what she may have done before? Retired civil servant may be correct.....or lottery winner.....or retired spy. But, now, living out a peaceful early retirement as a housewife.

Huh?

If all the women in the country who are not in paid employment went out to work, it would be a disaster.

Who would do all the voluntary work, the caring that happens for free. All the organising and community work and so forth.

The unpaid invisible work that women do is highly undervalued.

Is the idea maybe that the women can swap houses, pay each other to look after each other's children and homes. In order to give a (likely very small) amount of money in tax.... And this ideological preference means that women won't be raising their own children, looking after their own parents, but someone else's...

This feels like a poor idea.

You don't like communism but you want to force everyone of working age into work, or have I misunderstood?

Or you are a communist?

Not clear.

Thanks Fraggling for articulating that much better than I could have.

These threads don't take long to boil down to,

Woman that doesn't go out to paid work = lazy.

Tax dodger/sponger is a newer one. I guess that's refreshing

I think this is actually a place where 'identifies as' is legitimate.

When people ask what I do, I would say that I'm a computer programmer (assuming a non tech - if tech I would be more specific). In actual fact, I'm a darn site more senior than that - CTO/Consultant/Architect over the past few years, but if asked, 'programmer' is what comes to mind.

Some younger, american, redditors were scandalised that 'mother' and 'wife' (well, partner) didn't come even in the top 5 things I'd use to describe myself if asked, but, it's true, I would assume someone was asking about me, not my relation to other people (whether I grew them or not)

I converted to freelance when I had the kids, so I always described myself as at least a freelance programmer, not housewife/homemaker, even when, TBH, I was doing very little paid work, but it absolutely is a thing. I spend a good 50% of my 'working' day doing washing, filling the dishwasher, dealing with kids directly (pickups, feeding, spending time with), dealing with kids indirectly (eg. arranging appointments, sorting their stuff), cleaning, paperwork, car stuff, garden stuff etc. I've looked at outsourcing some - cleaner, washing (I don't even iron) gardener, personal assistant for everything, taxis - and the amount of money saved by me doing these tasks makes up for any loss of hourly billing (and I bill a lot!).

It's definitely an occupation.